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#Post#: 52311--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: RCG
Date: September 4, 2022, 8:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Headline on BBC Sport
"Premier League to review use of VAR with PGMOL"
Therein lies the issue. The only organisation that should be
reviewing England's implementation of VAR is the IFAB.
Guess the PL shareholders were (rightly) annoyed at yesterday's
efforts.
#Post#: 52314--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: Arbitre anglais
Date: September 4, 2022, 8:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Arbitre anglais
link=topic=3949.msg52266#msg52266 date=1662247158]
> Said this last week - VAR in England is being made to look far
more technical / complicated than it is. Really simple and needs
to go back to basics - has the referee made a CLEAR error? Not a
subjective decision or one which could possibly be given
differently, but an OBVIOUS mistake. Far too many times the ref
has been called to the screen when the VAR should have stayed
out of it. I just don’t see why they are finding it so hard?!
>
--- End Quote ---
You could certainly envisage a scenario where Mike Riley gives
out such an instruction tomorrow, only for us to then be in a
position in the next few weeks where it has gone too far the
other way and clear offences are being missed and people are
saying the PL bar is too high again.
Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if the SG1 refs have recently
been told that a perceived foul on a goalkeeper was missed in
the build-up to a goal, perhaps Arsenal V Villa in the week or
whatever, and they have over-compensated for that with some of
the decisions this weekend.
[/quote]
Exactly - seem to lurch from one extreme to the other. Not
helping with blatant, missed penalties (eg. recent shirt pull at
Wolves, Bankes) and other times getting involved with judgement
calls (trying to downgrade RCs for SFP).
Interestingly, UEFA seem to have decided English VARs can’t be
trusted, especially with big games. Taylor has German VARs in CL
this week which is surely not a good sign.
#Post#: 52315--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: Arbitre anglais
Date: September 4, 2022, 8:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> Headline on BBC Sport
>
> "Premier League to review use of VAR with PGMOL"
>
> Therein lies the issue. The only organisation that should be
reviewing England's implementation of VAR is the IFAB.
>
> Guess the PL shareholders were (rightly) annoyed at
yesterday's efforts.
>
--- End Quote ---
This has been an ongoing issue all along. The ‘premier league’
should have no power/control over the referees who should (like
everywhere else) be controlled by the FA. There needs to be that
separation to avoid a conflict of interest.
That said, understandable as the PGMOL is making a hash of it.
I’d be telling refs this week to keep it simple - not there to
re-referee, just help with anything the ref has CLEARLY missed /
got OBVIOUSLY wrong.
#Post#: 52316--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: September 4, 2022, 8:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the premier have written to the PGMOL asking them to
review VAR incidents in both Chelsea and Newcastle games
yesterday
#Post#: 52322--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 4, 2022, 9:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
From some years ago, long before VAR was a twinkle in Mike
Riley's or indeed anyone else's eye, a couple of Football League
referees whom I knew well both used to say that the one thing
that could bedevil their matches was " over busy linesman ". Now
to be fair, this was in the days before specialist ARs when most
League linesmen were trying to claw their way onto the National
Referees List and so had to try and bring attention onto
themselves. As one friend used to maintain, Linos are there to
line particularly taking responsibility for off sides and throw
ins and provide assistance if it's obvious I have missed
something. They are not there to co-referee the game.
Now we have over busy VARs and clearly they are wreaking more
havoc than the Linos of old. I hope today's VARs receive proper
Observation/Assessment because if they do then Lee Mason and
Jared Gillett have got one heck of a lot of explaining to do and
neither of them should be allowed anywhere near a VAR role until
they have satisfied a basic requirement of understanding what a
VAR is there to do and not to do. CLEAR and OBVIOUS needs to be
written in luminous ink on a card which they should study
morning, noon and night for the next few days.
#Post#: 52324--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: September 4, 2022, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> From some years ago, long before VAR was a twinkle in Mike
Riley's or indeed anyone else's eye, a couple of Football League
referees whom I knew well both used to say that the one thing
that could bedevil their matches was " over busy linesman ". Now
to be fair, this was in the days before specialist ARs when most
League linesmen were trying to claw their way onto the National
Referees List and so had to try and bring attention onto
themselves. As one friend used to maintain, Linos are there to
line particularly taking responsibility for off sides and throw
ins and provide assistance if it's obvious I have missed
something. They are not there to co-referee the game.
>
> Now we have over busy VARs and clearly they are wreaking more
havoc than the Linos of old. I hope today's VARs receive proper
Observation/Assessment because if they do then Lee Mason and
Jared Gillett have got one heck of a lot of explaining to do and
neither of them should be allowed anywhere near a VAR role until
they have satisfied a basic requirement of understanding what a
VAR is there to do and not to do. CLEAR and OBVIOUS needs to be
written in luminous ink on a card which they should study
morning, noon and night for the next few days.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don’t worry Lee Mason is only VAR on the United vs Arsenal game,
let’s hope he has a better game
#Post#: 52327--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: September 4, 2022, 10:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Probably posted this on the wrong VAR thread initially!
Must remember to record Ref Watch tomorrow if I'm not in at the
time. Plenty for Dermot and pundits to chew over.
My own view is that Mason, Gillett and Scott wrongly got
involved and advised OFRs, while Coute failed to intervene when
he should have done. I was surprised that in the Brentford v
Leeds game, Jones didn't give anything for the pull-back
outside, or the foul just inside, the area.
#Post#: 52332--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: nemesis
Date: September 4, 2022, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Arbitre anglais link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=3949.msg52290#msg52290
date=1662282760]
> [quote author=Arbitre anglais
link=topic=3949.msg52266#msg52266 date=1662247158]
> Said this last week - VAR in England is being made to look far
more technical / complicated than it is. Really simple and needs
to go back to basics - has the referee made a CLEAR error? Not a
subjective decision or one which could possibly be given
differently, but an OBVIOUS mistake. Far too many times the ref
has been called to the screen when the VAR should have stayed
out of it. I just don’t see why they are finding it so hard?!
>
--- End Quote ---
You could certainly envisage a scenario where Mike Riley gives
out such an instruction tomorrow, only for us to then be in a
position in the next few weeks where it has gone too far the
other way and clear offences are being missed and people are
saying the PL bar is too high again.
Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if the SG1 refs have recently
been told that a perceived foul on a goalkeeper was missed in
the build-up to a goal, perhaps Arsenal V Villa in the week or
whatever, and they have over-compensated for that with some of
the decisions this weekend.
[/quote]
Exactly - seem to lurch from one extreme to the other. Not
helping with blatant, missed penalties (eg. recent shirt pull at
Wolves, Bankes) and other times getting involved with judgement
calls (trying to downgrade RCs for SFP).
Interestingly, UEFA seem to have decided English VARs can’t be
trusted, especially with big games. Taylor has German VARs in CL
this week which is surely not a good sign.
[/quote]
It's good for him.
#Post#: 52373--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: cwh
Date: September 5, 2022, 2:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> It all started in 1991 with the introduction of the fourth
official who, I am sure was put in place to be the rubbing rag
for rival managers and benches ----they must have a constant
earache these days.
>
> We used to have 22 players in matches officiated by three
people in a physical game which was enjoyed by most fans who
would then dicuss the merits of the said game and its
officiating.
> We now have a game with 40 players, any of whom could be
involved in the game up to a maximum of 32 and the game is
officiated by 4 onfield officials and 2 VAR people. The game is
far less physical, thus it should be easier to officiate,
however, a lot of fans to whiom I speak throughout the country
moan like mad about VAR and the officials.
> I am straight with them and ask them if they enjoy the game,
some do and some don't, however, they pay a lot of money and
have to endure thte constant changes which are made to TLOG each
season but which don't make the game any better as a spectator
sport.
>
> Those running the game seem intent on trying to make it a
'perfect spectacle' however, they need to have a good look at
just what has been happening in the last 31 years instead of
trying to make it a digital festival. It is a simple game which
is being made more complicated by needless meddling.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is why I posted elsewhere that the Bury AFC v North Shields
match shown on the Red Button was enjoyable to watch without VAR
etc
#Post#: 52387--------------------------------------------------
Re: This weekend and VAR
DIR By: steveflanuk
Date: September 5, 2022, 5:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Arbitre anglais link ---
>
> Said this last week - VAR in England is being made to look far
more technical / complicated than it is. Really simple and needs
to go back to basics - has the referee made a CLEAR error? Not a
subjective decision or one which could possibly be given
differently, but an OBVIOUS mistake. Far too many times the ref
has been called to the screen when the VAR should have stayed
out of it. I just don’t see why they are finding it so hard?!
>
--- End Quote ---
Totally agree. I agree with VAR intervening when it's a clear
and obvious error, however, it seems to be that VAR has turned
into a scenario where the on-field referee gives a decision and
the VAR operator thinks 'I wouldn't have made that decision' and
is telling the on-field referee to have another look. That's a
subjective view, in my opinion, and therefore VAR should stay
out of it.
I think fans are also frustrated by the apparent lack of
consistency (I know I am). As an Everton fan, I still can't see
how the Allan red card against Newcastle last season (upgraded
from a yellow on advice from VAR) was in any way worse than Van
Dijk's tackle on Onana on Saturday (yellow with nothing from
VAR).
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