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#Post#: 50411--------------------------------------------------
Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: July 28, 2022, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
IFAB announced last night some updated guidance on 'deliberate
play' for the effect of 'resetting' offside.
Apparently, this isn't strictly a change to the Law, but updated
guidance. Semantics aside, it is a pretty significant change
that will impact football (immediately to officials, but you
would suspect that players and fans will take longer to notice).
There are video clips to help demonstrate the new
intepretation/guidance, but they don't seem to be working on my
computer. Not sure if anyone else has more luck?
HTML https://red.fifa.com/play/collection/13010/Law11-Offside:deliberateplayanddeflection?cId=16&itemId=12995
In essence, the changes are now so that the referee can better
distinguish between what is truly deliberate or intentional, and
what is not.
As officials, we would now consider the following as to whether
a play was deliberate for our needs.
The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view
of it
The ball was not moving quickly
The direction of the ball was not unexpected
The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it
was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a
movement that achieved limited contact/control
A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the
air[/li]
Otherwise, a 'deliberate' play would still remain for the
following:
passing the ball to a team-mate; or
gaining possession of the ball; or
clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)
I can see some immediate situations I would need to clarify
before being able to implement in my game on Saturday, but
presumably the clips will help (as will various Associations'
guidance that should be released in the next 24-48 hours)
The full IFAB article is here, as well as an embedded link to
the video clips I cannot see!
HTML https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/
EDIT: the videos now seem to be loading for me
#Post#: 50412--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: nemesis
Date: July 28, 2022, 5:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> IFAB announced last night some updated guidance on 'deliberate
play' for the effect of 'resetting' offside.
>
> Apparently, this isn't strictly a change to the Law, but
updated guidance. Semantics aside, it is a pretty significant
change that will impact football (immediately to officials, but
you would suspect that players and fans will take longer to
notice).
>
> There are video clips to help demonstrate the new
intepretation/guidance, but they don't seem to be working on my
computer. Not sure if anyone else has more luck?
>
>
HTML https://red.fifa.com/play/collection/13010/Law11-Offside:deliberateplayanddeflection?cId=16&itemId=12995
>
> In essence, the changes are now so that the referee can better
distinguish between what is truly deliberate or intentional, and
what is not.
>
> As officials, we would now consider the following as to
whether a play was deliberate for our needs.
>
>
> The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear
view of it
> The ball was not moving quickly
> The direction of the ball was not unexpected
> The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it
was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a
movement that achieved limited contact/control
> A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in
the air
>
>
> Otherwise, a 'deliberate' play would still remain for the
following:
>
>
> passing the ball to a team-mate; or
> gaining possession of the ball; or
> clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)
>
>
>
> I can see some immediate situations I would need to clarify
before being able to implement in my game on Saturday, but
presumably the clips will help (as will various Associations'
guidance that should be released in the next 24-48 hours)
>
> The full IFAB article is here, as well as an embedded link to
the video clips I cannot see!
HTML https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for that. There's certainly some examples in the videos
that I find hard to reconcile even with their new guidance !
There are a couple of quite deliberate attempts to cut out and
control a long pass which went wrong due to poor control which
are deemed not deliberate.
#Post#: 50413--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: ARF
Date: July 28, 2022, 5:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> ‘Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball
with the possibility of:
> passing the ball to a team-mate; or
> gaining possession of the ball; or
> clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).
--- End Quote ---
Anyone else slightly confused as to how you can have control of
the ball without being in possession of it? [emoji854]
#Post#: 50414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: July 28, 2022, 5:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Now that I can see the videos, there are some immediately
obvious difficulties to reconcile differences...
Australia v Peru; versus Napoli v PSG. I cannot easily
understand why one is deliberate and the other isn't (other than
these clips appear to suggest any ball that is 'lofted' doesn't
count, even if the time and pressure on the ball is
significantly lower?)
I do wonder if this will be tightened up more, just to get rid
of the decisions which felt wrong, but where the Law didn't
support. For many of those clips, the defender is under no
pressure and just makes a mess of it. Not sure we should be
legislating to protect that?
Either way, I look forward to the more specific Association
guidance...
#Post#: 50415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: July 28, 2022, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I hope the EFL clubs and referees have had some reasonable time
to prepare for this, rather than suddenly implementing something
completely different in 24 hours.
Where would the Liverpool V Spurs Lovren/Kane incident fit in
with this? That's one of the highest profile incidents I
remember.
#Post#: 50416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: Leggy
Date: July 28, 2022, 6:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
These endless attempts to define, with 100% accuracy, both
Offside and Handball result in less clarity, less accurate
decision making, more confusion and more nonsense. The
over-riding objective of these exercises appears to be to remove
from the referee / assistant referee any scintilla of discretion
to look at an incident and use their skill, knowledge and
judgement to come up with the right outcome for the game.
Football used to be a simple game, it has got so much more
complex in the last twenty years and I defy anyone to say it is
better for it. When we see playing contorting their bodies to
avoid being hit by the ball and penalised and when we see very
clear offsides not flagged in fear of VAR things have gone more
than a little awry.
#Post#: 50420--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: ASM
Date: July 28, 2022, 6:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I hope the EFL clubs and referees have had some reasonable
time to prepare for this, rather than suddenly implementing
something completely different in 24 hours.
>
> Where would the Liverpool V Spurs Lovren/Kane incident fit in
with this? That's one of the highest profile incidents I
remember.
>
--- End Quote ---
In a word, no.
#Post#: 50423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: bmb
Date: July 28, 2022, 10:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I hope the EFL clubs and referees have had some reasonable
time to prepare for this, rather than suddenly implementing
something completely different in 24 hours.
>
> Where would the Liverpool V Spurs Lovren/Kane incident fit in
with this? That's one of the highest profile incidents I
remember.
>
--- End Quote ---
Answer from Dale Johnson in relation to that:
HTML https://twitter.com/DavidLeaWrath/status/1552384072248397827?s=20&t=bOL4fbfU1qekIn_HSnKjVA
#Post#: 50424--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: July 28, 2022, 11:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=3836.msg50415#msg50415
date=1659006988]
> I hope the EFL clubs and referees have had some reasonable
time to prepare for this, rather than suddenly implementing
something completely different in 24 hours.
>
> Where would the Liverpool V Spurs Lovren/Kane incident fit in
with this? That's one of the highest profile incidents I
remember.
>
--- End Quote ---
Answer from Dale Johnson in relation to that:
HTML https://twitter.com/DavidLeaWrath/status/1552384072248397827?s=20&t=bOL4fbfU1qekIn_HSnKjVA
[/quote]
Thanks for sharing. I find that very interesting.
It's difficult to square why that particular situation would
result in an onside call, but the videos where a player makes a
mess of a clearance from a lofted through ball (and therefore
had more time, better ability to coordinate/react, and under
less pressure) creates an offside call...
I suspect we'll either be given improved guidance, or this is
going to go the way of past seasons handball amendments - i.e.
inconsistent application
The one element benefiting these guidelines is that these
decisions leading to goals/no goals is not as common as handball
and others where subjectivity is on the highest end of the
spectrum...
#Post#: 50426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: July 28, 2022, 11:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=3836.msg50423#msg50423
date=1659022534]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=3836.msg50415#msg50415
date=1659006988]
> I hope the EFL clubs and referees have had some reasonable
time to prepare for this, rather than suddenly implementing
something completely different in 24 hours.
>
> Where would the Liverpool V Spurs Lovren/Kane incident fit in
with this? That's one of the highest profile incidents I
remember.
>
--- End Quote ---
Answer from Dale Johnson in relation to that:
HTML https://twitter.com/DavidLeaWrath/status/1552384072248397827?s=20&t=bOL4fbfU1qekIn_HSnKjVA
[/quote]
Thanks for sharing. I find that very interesting.
It's difficult to square why that particular situation would
result in an onside call, but the videos where a player makes a
mess of a clearance from a lofted through ball (and therefore
had more time, better ability to coordinate/react, and under
less pressure) creates an offside call...
I suspect we'll either be given improved guidance, or this is
going to go the way of past seasons handball amendments - i.e.
inconsistent application
The one element benefiting these guidelines is that these
decisions leading to goals/no goals is not as common as handball
and others where subjectivity is on the highest end of the
spectrum...
[/quote]
My initial reading of it was Dale Johnson was saying that
Kane/Lovren would now be offside as Lovren was stretching for
the ball rather than being in control? However, it doesn't bode
well that the correct decision isn't fully clear to me from the
explanation!
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