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       #Post#: 50257--------------------------------------------------
       PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: Observeref8
       Date: July 21, 2022, 4:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well what has been highlighted with flying red flags at the
       Womens Euros is so clear that UEFA and FIFA don’t rate way it
       used in the PL (I agree too)
       With Riley leaving, surely there going to be a change this
       season, with more On field reviews ?? This high bar thing was
       madness … it had more fans / spectators in even more confusion
       for a game which is a spectator sport / and a business.
       Chris Kavanagh for some reason took his PL mentality into a UEFA
       game and looks as if he was sent back to Manchester.
       PL reds also need to get better on there reading of SFP… I have
       been watching a lot of Brazilian and Argentinian football of
       late and there reading is superb … we have a huge catch up to
       do.
       Hopefully Kavanagh will get the coaching off Atkinson this
       season and start being move brave when faced with SFP calls.
       Does anyone have any info on the Premier League guidance this
       season ?
       #Post#: 50258--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: July 21, 2022, 4:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Observeref8 link ---
       >
       >
       > Chris Kavanagh for some reason took his PL mentality into a
       UEFA game and looks as if he was sent back to Manchester.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No he wasn't.
       #Post#: 50265--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: DublinRef
       Date: July 21, 2022, 6:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Observeref8 link=topic=3830.msg50257#msg50257
       date=1658395401]
       >
       > Chris Kavanagh for some reason took his PL mentality into a
       UEFA game and looks as if he was sent back to Manchester.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No he wasn't.
       [/quote]
       Indeed, he did get another game as AVAR didn't he? However the
       fact he hasn't been appointed since, particularly not with Welch
       I do think it seems UEFA (correctly IMHO) were not happy with
       his intervention BUT - I still think Welch, who had the final
       say, should have carried most of the blame for that incident.
       I think the EPL should just copy VAR as used in the MLS
       (including releasing the audio in review videos which they
       publish weekly on Youtube with analysis of each decision) and
       VAR in England would improve drastically.
       #Post#: 50269--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: July 21, 2022, 9:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
       >
       > I think the EPL should just copy VAR as used in the MLS
       (including releasing the audio in review videos which they
       publish weekly on Youtube with analysis of each decision) and
       VAR in England would improve drastically.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think they should follow the UEFA guidelines like every other
       league in Europe does instead of making their own up. They do
       our FIFA referees and ARs a disservice by not doing so.
       #Post#: 50270--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: DublinRef
       Date: July 21, 2022, 9:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=3830.msg50265#msg50265
       date=1658401320]
       > I think the EPL should just copy VAR as used in the MLS
       (including releasing the audio in review videos which they
       publish weekly on Youtube with analysis of each decision) and
       VAR in England would improve drastically.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think they should follow the UEFA guidelines like every other
       league in Europe does instead of making their own up. They do
       our FIFA referees and ARs a disservice by not doing so.
       [/quote]
       Agreed, apologies I should have made my point clearer, the
       protocol should be followed as UEFA have it (although I like the
       MLS offside method) but I think there is value in taking the
       'production elements' if you like, from MLS.
       #Post#: 50272--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: July 21, 2022, 10:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
       >
       > [quote author=bmb link=topic=3830.msg50258#msg50258
       date=1658396763]
       > [quote author=Observeref8 link=topic=3830.msg50257#msg50257
       date=1658395401]
       >
       > Chris Kavanagh for some reason took his PL mentality into a
       UEFA game and looks as if he was sent back to Manchester.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No he wasn't.
       [/quote]
       I still think Welch, who had the final say, should have carried
       most of the blame for that incident.
       [/quote]
       Not if they are "encouraged" to always go with a VAR
       recommendation.  If the expectation is they never disagree with
       the VAR view then it is only fair that the referee is protected
       and the VAR faces the consequences.
       #Post#: 50274--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: Leggy
       Date: July 21, 2022, 11:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=3830.msg50265#msg50265
       date=1658401320]
       > [quote author=bmb link=topic=3830.msg50258#msg50258
       date=1658396763]
       > [quote author=Observeref8 link=topic=3830.msg50257#msg50257
       date=1658395401]
       >
       > Chris Kavanagh for some reason took his PL mentality into a
       UEFA game and looks as if he was sent back to Manchester.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No he wasn't.
       [/quote]
       I still think Welch, who had the final say, should have carried
       most of the blame for that incident.
       [/quote]
       Not if they are "encouraged" to always go with a VAR
       recommendation.  If the expectation is they never disagree with
       the VAR view then it is only fair that the referee is protected
       and the VAR faces the consequences.
       [/quote]
       Agree.  As I said before she was damned if she did (because the
       VAR recommendation was wrong) and damned if she did not (because
       rejecting a VAR recommendation is a career limiting move).
       #Post#: 50276--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: Seagull
       Date: July 21, 2022, 12:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Why should rejecting a VAR recommendation be a career limiting
       move? Surely the VAR feeds information to the on-field Referee
       for him/her to view and consider? If the latter wants to stick
       with the original decision, I certainly wouldn't have a problem
       with that and I don't think FAs, competitions, assessors, et al
       should have a problem either. Referees are not robots.
       #Post#: 50277--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: DublinRef
       Date: July 21, 2022, 12:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Leggy link ---
       >
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=3830.msg50272#msg50272
       date=1658417983]
       > [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=3830.msg50265#msg50265
       date=1658401320]
       > [quote author=bmb link=topic=3830.msg50258#msg50258
       date=1658396763]
       > [quote author=Observeref8 link=topic=3830.msg50257#msg50257
       date=1658395401]
       >
       > Chris Kavanagh for some reason took his PL mentality into a
       UEFA game and looks as if he was sent back to Manchester.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No he wasn't.
       [/quote]
       I still think Welch, who had the final say, should have carried
       most of the blame for that incident.
       [/quote]
       Not if they are "encouraged" to always go with a VAR
       recommendation.  If the expectation is they never disagree with
       the VAR view then it is only fair that the referee is protected
       and the VAR faces the consequences.
       [/quote]
       Agree.  As I said before she was damned if she did (because the
       VAR recommendation was wrong) and damned if she did not (because
       rejecting a VAR recommendation is a career limiting move).
       [/quote]
       On this occasion I will have to completely disagree with both of
       you, in the EPL the referee might be expected to go with VAR
       however there are a good number of examples at UEFA and FIFA
       level of the referee not following the VAR advice without their
       careers being limited.
       #Post#: 50294--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PL use of VAR 
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: July 22, 2022, 4:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree with Dublinref that the PL should release VAR audio
       subsequently as they do in MLS.
       I also agree with the point that it seems more accepted outside
       PL for referees not to change their decision after VAR
       intervention. At the 2018 World Cup Cakir and Pitana both did
       this in group stage and they had a semi-final and final
       respectively. This is something where I agree the PL should
       change their approach a bit.
       Aside from this, I'm not sure there's an obvious simple change
       that would suddenly improve VAR in PL. The original post refers
       to the high bar in England and then goes on to criticise
       Kavanagh for an unnecessary intervention. I'm not sure how much
       there is a particular philosophy in place. It seems we lurch
       around all over the place throughout the season. Arguably a more
       consistent application, at the appropriate level, might be
       better. And fundamentally I think we need the VARs to do a
       better job, however you might get there - it could be training,
       clearer direction, experience, etc.
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