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#Post#: 49669--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:08 am
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--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> Turpin reminds me of anthony Taylor, an excellent referee it
prone to clueless random decisions that are crucial match
changing decisions. This is why I rate Oliver and Letexier
better.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thats a good comparison although Taylor's bad decisions always
seem to be corrected by VAR. Obviously Turpin's couldn't be.
--- Quote from: Charlieboy link ---
>
> Fwiw I thought the referees body language after the second
yellow gave away the fact he knew he had made a poor decision,
he looked deflated, I sort of had sympathy for him after that
because many of us have been there.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thats a natural face for Turpin though.
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Jackinthebox link=topic=3789.msg49648#msg49648
date=1655239548]
> I think the first yellow for Stones was debatable as well.
Poor from.Turpin all night but no where near as bad as England
were.
>
--- End Quote ---
The first one was nailed on, he has smashed him in the head with
his elbow, even though accidental it was very clearly reckless.
[/quote]
More like his arm connected with his shoulder as your arms
naturally come up when you jump
#Post#: 49670--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: RCG
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:21 am
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Turpin thinks something has happened, guessed, got it wrong and
that will be reflected in his assessment. Ironically had he gone
straight red, VAR would have suggested an OFR and he then
realises his error.
Honeymoon definitely over for Southgate et al
#Post#: 49671--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: bmb
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:39 am
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--- Quote from: jacksamuel21 link ---
>
> More like his arm connected with his shoulder as your arms
naturally come up when you jump
>
--- End Quote ---
I suggest you rewatch - unless Szalai's cheek and ear are on his
shoulder now, then it really wasn't his shoulder! You can see a
red mark around Szalai's ear, lower area - top part of
cheek/jawline where he made contact.
HTML https://m4sport.hu/video/2022/06/14/uefa-nemzetek-ligaja-anglia-magyarorszag-csoportkor-merkozes<br
/>About 48mins into the video
#Post#: 49672--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: bmb
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:48 am
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--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> Honeymoon definitely over for Southgate et al
>
--- End Quote ---
I noticed how classy he was at the final whistle. He approached
every single Hungarian player 1 by 1 and shook their hand. Big
thing made of it in our national press praising his class and
sportsmanship
HTML https://m4sport.hu/magyar-foci/labdarugas/cikk/2022/06/15/legyozve-is-sportember-southgate-egyesevel-gratulalt-a-magyar-valogatott-jatekosainak-video
#Post#: 49673--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: bmb
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:56 am
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I am going to go there, although I have told myself not to...
I note, but am not surprised, that there has been no mention of
the England fans booing the Hungarian national Anthem and
singing "you know who you are, you know who you are, your racist
b******s, you know who you are." throughout it. I'm sure it
would have been mentioned if it was the other way around.
Just in case you missed it:
HTML https://m4sport.hu/2022/06/14/percrolpercrebejegyzes/tudjatok-kik-vagytok-angol-szurkolok-kifutyultek-a-magyar-himnuszt-es-uzentek-is
#Post#: 49674--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: Wollongong Ref
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:33 pm
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A clear shot at me BMB? The behaviour of the English fans is
equally appalling and certainly two wrongs do not make a right.
Just 2 wrongs
As for Turpin, I have never had trust in him. You always get teh
feeling that he is a decision to have a brain explosion and make
a poor call. Kuipers, Rosetti Merk Collina and the best of the
Elite do not have that trait imho.
#Post#: 49675--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: June 15, 2022, 10:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=RefObserver link=topic=3789.msg49663#msg49663
date=1655283318]
> Clearly a huge mistake from someone who I think is an
excellent referee.
>
> I don't believe this falls into the remit of VAR but I believe
it should.
>
> A potential/missed second caution is considered a KMD (Key
match decision) and is reviewed on footage by an observer at
Step 2 and above, rightly so as it leaves a team a player short.
If a straight red (given incorrectly or missed) is reviewable by
VAR then surely a second caution should be.
> I stand to be corrected if I am wrong but judging on last
night I hope I'm not!
>
--- End Quote ---
I have sympathy with that view, but ultimately VAR is there to
correct (my words) 'gross miscarriages of justice'. A second
yellow card isn't the same as straight red.
The reasoning is that there is more leeway on cautions, and that
a soft second yellow is no more different than a soft first.
VAR isn't there to review such decisions, only for the limited
list of penalties/goals/red cards/mistaken identity.
It's a pragmatic decision, as well as realistic limitation to
VAR's involvement. That doesn't help defend incidents like
yesterday, but without it, we could be reviewing far too many
decisions in a match.i
[/quote]
Yes, whilst I can appreciate why people call for VAR to be used
on the relatively rare occasions that a second yellow card is
clearly wrong, I'm not sure if it would be an effective thing to
add.
As you say, you firstly have the question of if you look at all
yellow cards given or potential yellow cards not given. If one
team had a player sent off for an incorrect first yellow card
and a clearcut second yellow and another team has a player stay
on because it is the second yellow that is incorrect then I'm
sure people would complain it was an injustice.
As you mention, the level at which yellow cards are given or not
given is often very variable. If a referee's given a foul for a
late challenge but decided to go with a last warning rather than
a second yellow, then do we want VAR to be able to intervene?
I think this perhaps falls into a similar area to the restart of
play, which VAR also generally doesn't look at. You might
occasionally get a clearly wrong decision which seems unjust but
I'm not sure that forensically analysing the numerous more
marginal incidents with VAR would compensate for this.
#Post#: 49679--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: bmb
Date: June 16, 2022, 5:39 am
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--- Quote from: Wollongong Ref link ---
>
> A clear shot at me BMB? The behaviour of the English fans is
equally appalling and certainly two wrongs do not make a right.
Just 2 wrongs
>
--- End Quote ---
No actually it was a more general observation that so many were
so quick to jump up and down and shout how disgraceful ALL
Hungarians are, they should be banned for life yadda yadda -
several threads across the forum about it, headlines in all the
papers about it, pundits yapping on non stop about it, despite
it being a minority of the fans that let us down when we play
England - it doesn't happen in other games except v Romania
which is a whole different kettle of fish & based on centuries
of bad blood between the 2 nations. Then you get England v
Germany - England fans arrested for doing nazi salutes, England
fans thrown out of bars for singing anti German songs, England
fans arrested for being drunk and disorderly and fighting,
England fans arrested for chanting nazis at any German person
they saw - several incidences of utterly disgraceful behaviour
and where is the same energy in condemning that? There was none,
yet 'but the Hungarians are the real problem'... England fans
booing a national anthem and chanting the whole way through,
silence yet again - no condemnation for that. England fans &
media ironically calling Hungarians racist, yet there are more
complaints and arrests for racist behaviour in England in a week
than there is in Hungary across a year. One of the classic media
headlines after this game England 0 Racists 4 and the picture
accompanying it was Loïc Négo leading the celebrations, he's a
black man, born in Paris and of Guadeloupean descent who is so
'appalled' by the racism in Hungary that he applied for
Hungarian citizenship as soon as he had lived there for 5 years
and now proudly represents Hungary at international level - he's
absolutely loved in Hungary. No mention in that report of the
English fans behaviour. Still I suppose it's ok as it wasn't
only our national anthem they disrespected as they also sang 'no
surrender' during God save the queen! Yet apparently we are the
only ones with a problem! We do have some appalling individuals
in our fanbase, we don't deny that & the sooner the MLSZ grow a
pair and ban the Carpathian brigade the better.
#Post#: 49680--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: rustyref
Date: June 16, 2022, 11:37 am
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There are some Neanderthals that follow most countries, and
England are one of the worst. They hit the beer early, can't
handle it and then start doing stupid things, like making nazi
salutes.
I think one big difference though is it is very rare to see
racism inside an English stadium now. It used to be
commonplace, now if it happens at all it is usually just one
individual. Whereas in Eastern European stadiums it can be
large sections of the crowd, hence why the bans and stadium
closures have been handed out. England's sanction was for
drunken yobbish behaviour in storming Wembley, and in fairness I
don't know any actual England fan who hasn't condemned that, but
it wasn't for racist behaviour.
Booing the national anthem is moronic, disrespectful, and
ultimately counter productive as it just fires the opponents up,
but I don't think it can be called racist.
#Post#: 49682--------------------------------------------------
Re: England v Hungary - Clement Turpin
DIR By: Wollongong Ref
Date: June 16, 2022, 6:50 pm
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The irony of thi is in Australia we do not have separated crowds
at any level. There might be sporadic issues but nothing to make
an issue of. There was an issue at a Rugby League match where
one or two members of the crowd made noises during a Minutes
silence at the ANZAC Day match in Brisbane. The culprit and I do
not endorse these actions was punched several times by members
by fans of both teams. In Australia Anthems and minutes of
silence are sacred.
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