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#Post#: 48874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: May 24, 2022, 8:51 am
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--- Quote from: jacksamuel21 link ---
>
> Surely the most simple way is to just have someone sat at
Stockley park watching a TV screen. This then feeds to the watch
of the referee.
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you saying that it is only the Premier League that has a
problem with 'added time' and that it is always correct at every
other level of football?
Or are you saying that only the Premier League matters because
of the financial aspects which have taken over?
Just asking.
#Post#: 48875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: May 24, 2022, 8:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> [quote author=jacksamuel21 link=topic=3742.msg48865#msg48865
date=1653397699]
> Surely the most simple way is to just have someone sat at
Stockley park watching a TV screen. This then feeds to the watch
of the referee.
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you saying that it is only the Premier League that has a
problem with 'added time' and that it is always correct at every
other level of football?
Or are you saying that only the Premier League matters because
of the financial aspects which have taken over?
Just asking.
[/quote]
Ties in with the point made by bmb on how they used to have 2
watches. Lower levels can do that, where there is GLT watch can
be done by someone watching on a TV.
#Post#: 48877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: GingerReferee
Date: May 24, 2022, 9:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It should be down to the referee but his/her officials could
help.
For me, I do it mentally, look at watch when it stops and look
again when it starts. Reason I don't stop my watches is because
I then forget to restart them. So I just do it mentally and it
works for me.
#Post#: 48881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: May 24, 2022, 10:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
On one wrist I have a watch to two timers on it. One counts
down from 45. When it reaches zero it vibrates. The other
counts up from zero and continues beyond 45. I don't touch
either of these timers once I have started them. On the other
wrist I have a stop watch. Whenever I want to 'stop the clock'
I start this one and stop it when play resumes. That tells me
how much time I will be adding, which makes it easy to
communicate that information to my AR. Once we hit 45 elapsed
it's just a case of continuing until the upward counting watch
reaches 45 plus the time on the stoppage time watch.
#Post#: 48882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: rustyref
Date: May 24, 2022, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=3742.msg48849#msg48849
date=1653338498]
> The challenge with football is that the ball goes out much
more than it does in the likes of rugby. Much of the time lost
is through throw-ins and goal kicks, and if the rugby model was
followed they wouldn't see the stop clocked. I went to a top
class rugby game at the weekend for the first time in ages and
it was obvious how infrequently play was stopped compared to
football. Also interesting was that the stopping of the stadium
clock seemed to be a bit random, on some replacements it kept
going but on others it was stopped. I have no idea who controls
that in rugby I have to confess.
>
> I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but I don't
think it is quite as easy as is being made out. Also, for the
case in question I am 100% sure that the prospect of a pitch
invasion was on Michael Oliver's mind and he wanted to get his
team to safety. If the home team and their stadium security
can't protect match officials and opposition players I certainly
am not going to blame the officials for manufacturing an end to
the game where they have a chance to get to safety. After all,
had he not it could have been Michael Oliver, Stuart Burt or
Simon Bennett who took a strike in the face instead of the Aston
Villa keeper.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm struggling to work out how blowing for full-time after 94.30
rather than 95.30 helps with a pitch invasion.
It would also seem entirely wrong for the home team's potential
failure to prevent home supporters from invading the pitch to
result in it being justifiable to end a match prematurely to
gift that side the title. Would you be ok with a referee not
bothering to add any stoppage time at all so they could get off
the pitch? What about failing to award the opposition a clear
penalty because you're worried about how the fans will react?
I think it would be opening a very dangerous can of worms and I
very much hope and suspect that it had no bearing on Michael
Oliver's decision. I think, like too many others, he simply was
not as accurate with adding on lost time as he should have been.
[/quote]
That isn't what I meant, rather perhaps he took the opportunity
to stop when play AR1 was near the tunnel and AR2 could be given
the instruction to leg it quickly. He would have seen the
masses of people crowding to the front, it was very obvious what
was going to happen.
Completely agree that these pitch invasions shouldn't be
happening, but I am sure it caused the cutting short rather than
it just being an error. It needs drastic action taking before
someone is seriously injured or even killed, and if I was out
there watching people about to invade outnumbering stewards and
police 10 to 1 I would certainly be focused on getting my team
off safely.
#Post#: 48884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: May 24, 2022, 12:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=3742.msg48857#msg48857
date=1653390283]
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=3742.msg48853#msg48853
date=1653379978]
> It's very simple for the correct amount of time to be added by
the Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
>
--- End Quote ---
In our day we could wear 2 watches one to run continually and
the other to stop/start, they can't do that these days as the
2nd watch has been replaced by the GLT watch. Maybe timekeeping
could be a role for the 4O, ref can say stop/start over the mic
to them and they could be the one with the stop/start watch.
[/quote]
In my experience in the senior game in Scotland, it is quite
typical for an official to have a watch counting down from 45
and another to be set/adjusted as needed. When there's a
protracted injury, a watch is started or time noted. Number of
subs or goals is taken into account, and time added is then
determined.
Stoppages are an expected element of football, so we shouldn't
get too worked up by that element. It is egregious delays and
exceptional pauses (injuries, clear timewasting etc.) that need
to be accounted for.
I am completely against neutral timekeepers as that creates a
single point of grievance, and is against the referee's control.
If this is a real issue (which it is on occasion, but far from
a majority problem), then IFAB or National Associations should
provide guidance.
However, going down this line, we're going to end up with 10+
minutes of stoppage time for fairly routine matches. I'm not
sure we want that.
[/quote]
I don't think referees are currently doing a very good job with
it under their control.
If you followed the rugby model then the referee would still
have control over when the clock was stopped. There would just
be full transparency about exactly what time was on the clock
and how long was left.
There is an argument that it is sometimes difficult to judge
exactly when the delay of a restart becomes excessive. If so,
stopping the clock every time the ball goes out could be an
approach as every stoppage would count the same.
I think the proportion of time lost in each game, certainly at
the top level, has probably increased over the years. We now
routinely have 'gamesmanship' at play, each team often has 5
subs, there is rightly more care taken with things like
potential concussion (although IFAB need to go further in this
area too), there are delays due to VAR. I think there is quite
often not sufficient time added on.
#Post#: 48885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: May 24, 2022, 1:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Affy_Moose link=topic=3742.msg48864#msg48864
date=1653395972]
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=3742.msg48857#msg48857
date=1653390283]
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=3742.msg48853#msg48853
date=1653379978]
> It's very simple for the correct amount of time to be added by
the Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
>
--- End Quote ---
In our day we could wear 2 watches one to run continually and
the other to stop/start, they can't do that these days as the
2nd watch has been replaced by the GLT watch. Maybe timekeeping
could be a role for the 4O, ref can say stop/start over the mic
to them and they could be the one with the stop/start watch.
[/quote]
In my experience in the senior game in Scotland, it is quite
typical for an official to have a watch counting down from 45
and another to be set/adjusted as needed. When there's a
protracted injury, a watch is started or time noted. Number of
subs or goals is taken into account, and time added is then
determined.
Stoppages are an expected element of football, so we shouldn't
get too worked up by that element. It is egregious delays and
exceptional pauses (injuries, clear timewasting etc.) that need
to be accounted for.
I am completely against neutral timekeepers as that creates a
single point of grievance, and is against the referee's control.
If this is a real issue (which it is on occasion, but far from
a majority problem), then IFAB or National Associations should
provide guidance.
However, going down this line, we're going to end up with 10+
minutes of stoppage time for fairly routine matches. I'm not
sure we want that.
[/quote]
I don't think referees are currently doing a very good job with
it under their control.
If you followed the rugby model then the referee would still
have control over when the clock was stopped. There would just
be full transparency about exactly what time was on the clock
and how long was left.
There is an argument that it is sometimes difficult to judge
exactly when the delay of a restart becomes excessive. If so,
stopping the clock every time the ball goes out could be an
approach as every stoppage would count the same.
I think the proportion of time lost in each game, certainly at
the top level, has probably increased over the years. We now
routinely have 'gamesmanship' at play, each team often has 5
subs, there is rightly more care taken with things like
potential concussion (although IFAB need to go further in this
area too), there are delays due to VAR. I think there is quite
often not sufficient time added on.
[/quote]
VAR should have a timer with he can then feedback to the referee
on the time it took.
#Post#: 48887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: sastley
Date: May 24, 2022, 1:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Very simple. Referees should do their job properly. They have
pockets for additional watches if needed. Im not sure how it
works now, at so many premier league games I've been at this
season when play is stopped for say an injury and the referee
makes no movement to stop is/her watch.
#Post#: 48888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: magpie1892
Date: May 24, 2022, 2:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I have a sprinsto referee watch, has 3 timers, one up from
00:00, one down from 45:00 and one that counts up stoppage time
when i press a button it also stops the other two clocks.
My watch then vibrates every 10 sec to remind me to restart.
I then have a normal stop watch counting up from 00:00 as a
backup
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