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#Post#: 48852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Seagull
Date: May 24, 2022, 3:08 am
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--- Quote from: jacksamuel21 link ---
>
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=3742.msg48836#msg48836
date=1653332023]
> [quote author=carrowman link=topic=3742.msg48833#msg48833
date=1653328347]
> Well Chris Kavanagh actually indicated and played NIL added
minutes in the second half despite 3 goal celebrations, numerous
subs etc for Norwich v Spurs. Not that I was complaining as I
left after the 5th went in, but Son could, even with a couple of
extra minutes it could have been enough for him to win the
Golden Boot outright!
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. These are out top referees who are unable to do the most
basic of things right. Disgraceful.
[/quote]
Its pretty standard when one team is winning comfortably for
very little if any added time to be added.
[/quote]
That may or may not be the case but all lost time should be
added for several reasons - goal difference may be important at
the end of the season, for example.
#Post#: 48853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Seagull
Date: May 24, 2022, 3:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Carter link ---
>
> Totally agree with you.
>
> Its not been mentioned because it mattered not to Villa in the
context of the game.
>
> Its a stain on the game the lack of competence that they cant
keep proper time, and in this case it was even worse as it all
happenned in a very short period..
>
> Very much time of timekeepers
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure external timekeepers are a good idea. It's very
simple for the correct amount of time to be added by the
Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
#Post#: 48854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: May 24, 2022, 3:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: carrowman link ---
>
> Well Chris Kavanagh actually indicated and played NIL added
minutes in the second half despite 3 goal celebrations, numerous
subs etc for Norwich v Spurs. Not that I was complaining as I
left after the 5th went in, but Son could, even with a couple of
extra minutes it could have been enough for him to win the
Golden Boot outright!
>
--- End Quote ---
What's the point of showing nil minutes to be added? Surely you
just blow the final whistle.
On the other hand maybe all referees should just indicate a
minimum of nil minutes to be added then play as long as they
fancy. It would stop anyone arguing that they have played less
time than they said they would. ;)
#Post#: 48856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Leggy
Date: May 24, 2022, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is a problem a long in the making. Once (the minimum)
added time was displayed it started to create more problems than
it solved.
Even if the score is 7-0 and a pitch invasion is likely, the
correct time needs to be played for the integrity of the
competition. If there are safety issues, then they need to be
dealt with and shortening the game is not the correct way to do
this. The field of play is a place of work for players and
match officials and they are legally entitled to undertake their
work in a safe environment. The clubs will need to invest some
of their considerable TV money in getting a properly organised
and funded safety regime in place.
As for time - periods when the ball is not in play in Rugby
Union are less frequent than football; but often much longer.
It can (and has in this year's Six Nations) has taken four
minutes to get a scrum completed. Both sports would benefit
from external time-keeping with reduced "in-play" time -
probably 30 minutes per half. We know, however, that the TV
companies dislike this and those that pays the piper calls the
tune.
Oh for the simpler times when I started my watch at 00:00,
stopped it when the Laws required me to, restarted it and then
blew for time when it reached 45:00!
#Post#: 48857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: bmb
Date: May 24, 2022, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Seagull link ---
>
> It's very simple for the correct amount of time to be added by
the Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
>
--- End Quote ---
In our day we could wear 2 watches one to run continually and
the other to stop/start, they can't do that these days as the
2nd watch has been replaced by the GLT watch. Maybe timekeeping
could be a role for the 4O, ref can say stop/start over the mic
to them and they could be the one with the stop/start watch.
#Post#: 48858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: May 24, 2022, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=3742.msg48853#msg48853
date=1653379978]
> It's very simple for the correct amount of time to be added by
the Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
>
--- End Quote ---
In our day we could wear 2 watches one to run continually and
the other to stop/start, they can't do that these days as the
2nd watch has been replaced by the GLT watch. Maybe timekeeping
could be a role for the 4O, ref can say stop/start over the mic
to them and they could be the one with the stop/start watch.
[/quote]
Far too simple solution that bmb. I'm not sure that the 4O would
always hear the ref anyway with all the grief he gets from some
of the staff in the technical area.
#Post#: 48859--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Seagull
Date: May 24, 2022, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=3742.msg48853#msg48853
date=1653379978]
> It's very simple for the correct amount of time to be added by
the Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
>
--- End Quote ---
In our day we could wear 2 watches one to run continually and
the other to stop/start, they can't do that these days as the
2nd watch has been replaced by the GLT watch. Maybe timekeeping
could be a role for the 4O, ref can say stop/start over the mic
to them and they could be the one with the stop/start watch.
[/quote]
Fair point bmb although maybe a continually running watch could
be some sort timepiece kept in a pocket? (That's what I did. My
continuous watch was a proper stopwatch which I started then put
in my pocket.) Your 4O idea is good. In Rugby, you often hear
the Ref say on the mic "Time Off" and "Time On" to their
timekeeper although I think he/she isn't the 4O.
#Post#: 48863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: May 24, 2022, 7:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> The challenge with football is that the ball goes out much
more than it does in the likes of rugby. Much of the time lost
is through throw-ins and goal kicks, and if the rugby model was
followed they wouldn't see the stop clocked. I went to a top
class rugby game at the weekend for the first time in ages and
it was obvious how infrequently play was stopped compared to
football. Also interesting was that the stopping of the stadium
clock seemed to be a bit random, on some replacements it kept
going but on others it was stopped. I have no idea who controls
that in rugby I have to confess.
>
> I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but I don't
think it is quite as easy as is being made out. Also, for the
case in question I am 100% sure that the prospect of a pitch
invasion was on Michael Oliver's mind and he wanted to get his
team to safety. If the home team and their stadium security
can't protect match officials and opposition players I certainly
am not going to blame the officials for manufacturing an end to
the game where they have a chance to get to safety. After all,
had he not it could have been Michael Oliver, Stuart Burt or
Simon Bennett who took a strike in the face instead of the Aston
Villa keeper.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm struggling to work out how blowing for full-time after 94.30
rather than 95.30 helps with a pitch invasion.
It would also seem entirely wrong for the home team's potential
failure to prevent home supporters from invading the pitch to
result in it being justifiable to end a match prematurely to
gift that side the title. Would you be ok with a referee not
bothering to add any stoppage time at all so they could get off
the pitch? What about failing to award the opposition a clear
penalty because you're worried about how the fans will react?
I think it would be opening a very dangerous can of worms and I
very much hope and suspect that it had no bearing on Michael
Oliver's decision. I think, like too many others, he simply was
not as accurate with adding on lost time as he should have been.
#Post#: 48864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: May 24, 2022, 7:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=3742.msg48853#msg48853
date=1653379978]
> It's very simple for the correct amount of time to be added by
the Referee. He/She stops the watch when there's a delay and
restarts it when play restarts. That was always the case in my
day and I don't understand why it's evidently not done that way
now.
>
--- End Quote ---
In our day we could wear 2 watches one to run continually and
the other to stop/start, they can't do that these days as the
2nd watch has been replaced by the GLT watch. Maybe timekeeping
could be a role for the 4O, ref can say stop/start over the mic
to them and they could be the one with the stop/start watch.
[/quote]
In my experience in the senior game in Scotland, it is quite
typical for an official to have a watch counting down from 45
and another to be set/adjusted as needed. When there's a
protracted injury, a watch is started or time noted. Number of
subs or goals is taken into account, and time added is then
determined.
Stoppages are an expected element of football, so we shouldn't
get too worked up by that element. It is egregious delays and
exceptional pauses (injuries, clear timewasting etc.) that need
to be accounted for.
I am completely against neutral timekeepers as that creates a
single point of grievance, and is against the referee's control.
If this is a real issue (which it is on occasion, but far from
a majority problem), then IFAB or National Associations should
provide guidance.
However, going down this line, we're going to end up with 10+
minutes of stoppage time for fairly routine matches. I'm not
sure we want that.
#Post#: 48865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Time keeping ...... yet again.
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: May 24, 2022, 8:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Surely the most simple way is to just have someone sat at
Stockley park watching a TV screen. This then feeds to the watch
of the referee.
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