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#Post#: 48180--------------------------------------------------
Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v Nottingham
Forest Youth Final
DIR By: thesensibleone
Date: May 12, 2022, 5:02 am
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I did not watch the game last night but i have seen images of
the match and a KMI that changed the game and the two officials
in question should have got right at there level and the outcome
resulted in a goal which put manchester united on the front foot
and nottingham forest awaiting another apology from another
referee and linesman.
This time the award of a penalty that was never a penalty and
contact was made 2 feet outside the box, you can see clear grass
between contact and penalty area and linesman looking right
across at it not intervening, i just cannot understand.
Other than this at the teams and officials seemed to have a
pretty good night, but again a KMI wrongly awarded penalty gave
the momentum to the home team in the final minutes.
#Post#: 48189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: nemesis
Date: May 12, 2022, 9:20 am
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--- Quote from: thesensibleone link ---
>
> I did not watch the game last night but i have seen images of
the match and a KMI that changed the game and the two officials
in question should have got right at there level and the outcome
resulted in a goal which put manchester united on the front foot
and nottingham forest awaiting another apology from another
referee and linesman.
>
> This time the award of a penalty that was never a penalty and
contact was made 2 feet outside the box, you can see clear grass
between contact and penalty area and linesman looking right
across at it not intervening, i just cannot understand.
>
> Other than this at the teams and officials seemed to have a
pretty good night, but again a KMI wrongly awarded penalty gave
the momentum to the home team in the final minutes.
>
--- End Quote ---
So other than gifting the game to Man Utd they had a pretty good
night. Reminds me of "apart from that Mrs Lincoln, what did you
think of the play?".
#Post#: 48191--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: Seagull
Date: May 12, 2022, 9:34 am
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--- Quote from: thesensibleone link ---
>
> I did not watch the game last night but i have seen images of
the match and a KMI that changed the game and the two officials
in question should have got right at there level and the outcome
resulted in a goal which put manchester united on the front foot
and nottingham forest awaiting another apology from another
referee and linesman.
>
> This time the award of a penalty that was never a penalty and
contact was made 2 feet outside the box, you can see clear grass
between contact and penalty area and linesman looking right
across at it not intervening, i just cannot understand.
>
> Other than this at the teams and officials seemed to have a
pretty good night, but again a KMI wrongly awarded penalty gave
the momentum to the home team in the final minutes.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've just watched some highlights on Facebook and there's no
doubt that the contact is in the "D" so it should have been a FK
rather than PK. Perhaps Referee Mr. Smith can be forgiven a
little due to his "front on" view. I think he was initially
looking to the AR Mr. Taylor for guidance on outside/inside the
area but received either no help at all or incorrect advice and
had to judge the incident himself on what he saw. For his part,
Mr. Taylor was virtually in line with the incident with a clear
"side on" view and therefore, could/should, I feel, have been
able to advise that it was outside the area. I would blame him
more for the error than Mr. Smith.
#Post#: 48198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: ajb95
Date: May 12, 2022, 11:30 am
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Took in this game last night and I have to say a fantastic crowd
from both sets of clubs and a terrific game between 2 very good
young sides
Finally saw Mr Smith in the flesh and was very impressed. Had a
very ‘Simon hoopery’ kind of look and run. His overall control
was excellent, very good judgement of fouls and very happy to
sit in the background, albeit both sets of players were happy to
get on with it.
All cautions for challenges correct and dealt with the handbags
at the end well with a card for each side for their instigators.
Positioning excellent very fit she and mobile. Clearly a very
good referee and one of the best I’ve seen live this season.
However referees and their assistants are judged on key match
incidents and the one in this game was a clear mistake as the
original poster mentioned. I can understand it from the ref’s
POV as he is far from the incident so not able to get a wide
enough view. There seemed to be a lot of conversation. Between
smith and Taylor on the far side, who seemed to crawl rather
than run towards the corner flag to verbally say “penalty”.
Replays show it was clearly outside the box, so whilst difficult
in a split-second decision, the linesman is bang in line so
should be able to call that correctly.
So a shame to have made the mistake but a very good performance
overall
#Post#: 48249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: May 13, 2022, 12:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: thesensibleone link ---
>
> I did not watch the game last night but i have seen images of
the match and a KMI that changed the game and the two officials
in question should have got right at there level and the outcome
resulted in a goal which put manchester united on the front foot
and nottingham forest awaiting another apology from another
referee and linesman.
>
> This time the award of a penalty that was never a penalty and
contact was made 2 feet outside the box, you can see clear grass
between contact and penalty area and linesman looking right
across at it not intervening, i just cannot understand.
>
> Other than this at the teams and officials seemed to have a
pretty good night, but again a KMI wrongly awarded penalty gave
the momentum to the home team in the final minutes.
>
--- End Quote ---
For those who did watch the game it was clearly not a penalty.
However your still photo is taken before contact was made and
the incident was closer than that to the penalty area. However
had he not given a penalty he would have had to have sent off
the defender for a definite DOGSO. So at least 15 minutes
remaining (plus 30 minutes of extra time) to have scored another
goal against 10 men.
#Post#: 48259--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: thesensibleone
Date: May 13, 2022, 5:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
In refereeing you are taught only to give penalties that you are
100% sure of and in a position to give. Which both Josh Smith
and Craig Taylor never was also if it was Dogso outside then
it's Dogso inside, if the interpretation is that he meant to do
it and not accidental. But either way there is no defending the
error of the KMI.
#Post#: 48272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: Leggy
Date: May 14, 2022, 5:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: thesensibleone link ---
>
> In refereeing you are taught only to give penalties that you
are 100% sure of and in a position to give. Which both Josh
Smith and Craig Taylor never was also if it was Dogso outside
then it's Dogso inside, if the interpretation is that he meant
to do it and not accidental. But either way there is no
defending the error of the KMI.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you can "defend" the KMI - it might have been the speed
of play, the position of the referee (too central? no width?),
a blocked view, etc.
What cannot be done is deny that it was a KMI.
#Post#: 48274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: May 14, 2022, 6:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> [quote author=thesensibleone link=topic=3697.msg48259#msg48259
date=1652482162]
> In refereeing you are taught only to give penalties that you
are 100% sure of and in a position to give. Which both Josh
Smith and Craig Taylor never was also if it was Dogso outside
then it's Dogso inside, if the interpretation is that he meant
to do it and not accidental. But either way there is no
defending the error of the KMI.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you can "defend" the KMI - it might have been the speed
of play, the position of the referee (too central? no width?),
a blocked view, etc.
What cannot be done is deny that it was a KMI.
[/quote]
Didn't see it so cannot comment on the specific incident.
However, if the referee makes a factual and demonstrable error
in say, awarding a penalty kick when the foul play happened
outside the penalty area, then indeed it is a KMI but I question
whether such an error may be properly "defended". It may
certainly be explained by referring to speed of play, referee's
position, blocked view or plain old fashioned incompetence but
not, I think, defended. What is more open to debate is the
referee's culpability. If the view was blocked that incurs far
less culpability then poor positioning. With the case of a
blocked view then the culpability debate moves on to the
communication and team work between referee and AR.
#Post#: 48275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: ServiceRef
Date: May 14, 2022, 6:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Having looked at the footage, you can see that the Smith is
caught out by the poor pass from the defender to his colleague
who then couldn’t control it. Smith was then caught straight on
to play; he could see that it was a foul but couldn’t see
whether it was in or out of the box. That’s where teamwork comes
in and in my option you can see Smith wait; he appears to get a
call from Taylor who must have said inside and thus the penalty
was awarded. It was the wrong call but excusable because of the
poor play from Forest and the speed it happened. As others have
said, if they had got the call right the young lad would have
had to be sent off.
#Post#: 48278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith/Craig Taylor - Manchester United Youth v
Nottingham Forest Youth Final
DIR By: RCG
Date: May 14, 2022, 7:31 am
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Taylor's positioning (correctly) is in line with 2nd last
defender, which leaves him 2 yards off being square on to
penalty edge line. If you lose where the foot contact was and
assume its the knees coming together that send the player over,
then I can see why a penalty was given.
What it does highlight is the need to be fully "on it" even when
defenders appear in control. Had that incident happened from an
attack building I believe they would have got it right.
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