DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 47911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: rustyref
Date: May 6, 2022, 5:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: emu80 link ---
>
> He was dreadful, just because you play advantage doesn't mean
you cant be booked unless the rules have changed in the last 2
weeks.
>
--- End Quote ---
If you are going to say the referee was dreadful you really,
really need to know the laws. You cannot caution for stopping a
promising attacking if you play advantage.
#Post#: 47912--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: May 6, 2022, 5:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: emu80 link ---
>
> He was dreadful, just because you play advantage doesn't mean
you cant be booked unless the rules have changed in the last 2
weeks.
>
--- End Quote ---
The reason for booking Casemiro would have been for stopping a
promising attack. Since advantage was played and the attack was
not stopped, there is no reason to caution.
That wouldn’t be the case for a reckless tackle. In that
instance a caution would be shown at the next stoppage.
Now, we could debate Law 12 and there would be some merit in it.
We could equally argue that Casemiro’s challenge justified a
caution for unsporting behaviour, and again, you might see that
occasionally given (or a referee might ‘take’ the foul so as to
not play advantage and allow the otherwise cautionable offence
to escape unpunished).
Generally, the Law 12 amendment has resulted in fewer cautions
and works well (as noted by the mistaken pundits, in seasons
past this would have resulted in a caution). For challenges
such as this in the future, some adjustment might be welcome.
In no way however was it an error, and it certainly had zero
impact on the game.
#Post#: 47922--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: Leggy
Date: May 7, 2022, 5:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=emu80 link=topic=3678.msg47907#msg47907
date=1651851285]
> He was dreadful, just because you play advantage doesn't mean
you cant be booked unless the rules have changed in the last 2
weeks.
>
--- End Quote ---
The reason for booking Casemiro would have been for stopping a
promising attack. Since advantage was played and the attack was
not stopped, there is no reason to caution.
That wouldn’t be the case for a reckless tackle. In that
instance a caution would be shown at the next stoppage.
Now, we could debate Law 12 and there would be some merit in it.
We could equally argue that Casemiro’s challenge justified a
caution for unsporting behaviour, and again, you might see that
occasionally given (or a referee might ‘take’ the foul so as to
not play advantage and allow the otherwise cautionable offence
to escape unpunished).
Generally, the Law 12 amendment has resulted in fewer cautions
and works well (as noted by the mistaken pundits, in seasons
past this would have resulted in a caution). For challenges
such as this in the future, some adjustment might be welcome.
In no way however was it an error, and it certainly had zero
impact on the game.
[/quote]
you are correct in stating that it was not an error, but you
cannot assert that it had zero impact on the game. No-one knows
how Casemiro would have behaved had a caution been issued. He
may have played with more caution (pun intended), he may have
been substituted, or he may have been exactly the same. We'll
never know.
#Post#: 47924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: May 7, 2022, 7:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=emu80 link=topic=3678.msg47907#msg47907
date=1651851285]
> He was dreadful, just because you play advantage doesn't mean
you cant be booked unless the rules have changed in the last 2
weeks.
>
--- End Quote ---
The reason for booking Casemiro would have been for stopping a
promising attack. Since advantage was played and the attack was
not stopped, there is no reason to caution.
That wouldn’t be the case for a reckless tackle. In that
instance a caution would be shown at the next stoppage.
Now, we could debate Law 12 and there would be some merit in it.
We could equally argue that Casemiro’s challenge justified a
caution for unsporting behaviour, and again, you might see that
occasionally given (or a referee might ‘take’ the foul so as to
not play advantage and allow the otherwise cautionable offence
to escape unpunished).
Generally, the Law 12 amendment has resulted in fewer cautions
and works well (as noted by the mistaken pundits, in seasons
past this would have resulted in a caution). For challenges
such as this in the future, some adjustment might be welcome.
In no way however was it an error, and it certainly had zero
impact on the game.
[/quote]
I agree except for the last part of the last sentence - it may
have had zero immediate direct impact on the game but in
addition to perhaps making Casemiro more circumspect it also
affects confidence that players have in the referee's decisions
and coupled with the previous Casemiro challenge on De Bruyne
perhaps encourages some to make more risky challenges than they
would otherwise. It also makes some of the later cards he
issues look a bit disproportionate in comparison.
#Post#: 47925--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: May 7, 2022, 8:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I freely confess I've not had quite the admiration for Orsato
that some other contributors have while acknowledging he must be
a very good referee to achieve what he has.
There's just something about his style that doesn't appeal in
the same way as Kuipers, Brych or Makkelie do for example.
The decision to not caution Casemiro for the scissors challenge
on de Bruyne I thought was awful to be frank. I've no idea how
Orsato viewed it or whether he was just being 'lenient' as it
was early in the game, but surely that was a minimum YC at any
level and in any context. How much that was instrumental in the
altercation and 2 YCs that followed and affected the rest of the
game is a matter of conjecture. But with the pull back on Foden
in mind, I agree with those who question the law that now
prohibits a YC for SPA when advantage has been played.
Does that count as a KMI error by the way or does it come under
the heading of 'subjective'?
#Post#: 47926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: rustyref
Date: May 7, 2022, 8:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> I freely confess I've not had quite the admiration for Orsato
that some other contributors have while acknowledging he must be
a very good referee to achieve what he has.
> There's just something about his style that doesn't appeal in
the same way as Kuipers, Brych or Makkelie do for example.
>
> The decision to not caution Casemiro for the scissors
challenge on de Bruyne I thought was awful to be frank. I've no
idea how Orsato viewed it or whether he was just being 'lenient'
as it was early in the game, but surely that was a minimum YC at
any level and in any context. How much that was instrumental in
the altercation and 2 YCs that followed and affected the rest of
the game is a matter of conjecture. But with the pull back on
Foden in mind, I agree with those who question the law that now
prohibits a YC for SPA when advantage has been played.
>
> Does that count as a KMI error by the way or does it come
under the heading of 'subjective'?
>
--- End Quote ---
It would be a missed caution which knocks 0.1 off the mark, but
not an incorrect KMI.
#Post#: 47953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Orsato Real v Man City
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: May 8, 2022, 3:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Mark Clattenburg has advocated the idea of 60 minute matches,
with the clock only on every time the ball is in play. IFAB
raised this idea for discussion about 5 years ago but I think
indicated it was unlikely they would proceed with it.
Personally I would support something like that, or at least a
different method of timekeeping.
I agree in general with Ref Fan too that I think Orsato overall
has been a bit below the level of the very best UEFA referees
we've seen in recent times and indeed most of the number 1
Italian referees we've seen over last 20 years or so.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 2
DIR Previous Page