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#Post#: 47746--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: May 3, 2022, 3:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sky reporting that Attwell has apologised to Steve Cooper for
the offside decision… that would suggest a spot kick would have
been given.
#Post#: 47747--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: Claretman
Date: May 3, 2022, 4:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Not the finest performance from team ref tonight in this game.
Would expect better from sg1 officials.
It may just be me but for some reason i always fear when i see
Hatzidakis on a game, something i always thought similar to when
Beck was regularly with Clattenburg.
Had a penalty been given we will never know what the outcome
would have been.
Well done to Forest and Especially Cooper rising from the
relegation zone to the verge of automatic promotion, hope they
do well in the play offs.
Congratulations to Bournemouth in getting back to the premier
league, i still cherish watching their first ever game in the
premier league and that valuable match programme i have, it was
worth the 18hour day.
#Post#: 47755--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: bmb
Date: May 3, 2022, 6:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> Well done to Forest and Especially Cooper rising from the
relegation zone to the verge of automatic promotion, hope they
do well in the play offs.
> Congratulations to Bournemouth in getting back to the premier
league, i still cherish watching their first ever game in the
premier league and that valuable match programme i have, it was
worth the 18hour day.
>
--- End Quote ---
Forest have been amazing since Cooper took over. I'd like to see
a Forest v Luton final & either I'd be pleased if they won.
I would have been sat diagonally opposite you in that 1st game.
1-0 defeat to Villa. They flew Mark Clattenburg back from
holiday in Spain to referee it. There were so many changes at
the club over the summer with stuff that had to be brought up to
PL standard and it was chaos. The PL seriously doubted things
were going to go right on the day in terms of protocols etc.
even silly tings like team ref arriving at the ground in 1 car
instead of all arriving separately in their own cars seemed to
be cause for concern so they asked Mark to do the game as he'd
not be fazed by the complete chaos! 1st PL game in my 21 lady
years of watching & I had to leave 5 mins early to get out of
the carpark ahead of the traffic and over to the hotel to get
him back to Gatwick for his flight back to Spain!
#Post#: 47758--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: Mikael W
Date: May 3, 2022, 10:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not so sure this is the crystal clear penalty which everyone
seems to accept it is. Surridge takes a poor touch from the
through ball, and look at the way he plants his left leg just
ahead of the six-yard box, waiting for the contact to come with
the goalkeeper. He is already falling when Travers touches him.
Admittedly, I accept that most people would still see the
goalkeeper's actions as too careless (-> penalty), but this
situation is not as simple as black vs. white, for me at least.
Though Hatzidakis's mistake certainly is...
HTML https://streamable.com/xwsgn9
#Post#: 47759--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: Mikael W
Date: May 3, 2022, 10:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I just caught up on the second half, and overall, given the
difficulty of game he faced, Attwell did okay IMO (though not
more).
The problem is, and I pointed this out during the EFL Cup final
to some ridicule on here, is that his style is simply a disaster
for challenging assignments. He can't really operate a stepped
approach to take the heat of out his games, relying instead on
his very good physical condition and being close to incidents in
order to keep control.
Indeed, Attwell didn't lose control of this game in the sense
that confrontations broke out. But was he really in control of
what the players were doing in this (tough!) game, or was he
rather flying by the seat of his pants, relying on there not
being a big incident, and the game completely exploding? To me
at least, the answer is clear.
And I agree with AM - the freekick leading to the goal was more
of a dive than a foul. However, the incident is very tricky as
the defender does make a play for the ball and is too slow. I
rather think the Bournemouth player overruns the ball, and then
decides that generating a freekick is his best option, but that
the defender doesn't complain, suggests that attacking freekick
is an at least credible call.
Attwell looked quite lost in the couple of minutes leading up to
that (he allowed 15/20yrds to be stolen at a throw-in, went to
blow for a freekick and then played on), and I'm certain had
some doubts about this call, but plumped to give it in the final
reckoning.
---
If I may make a more general tangential point here: English
refereeing and PGMOL is/are seen as the laughing stock of
European refereeing. Honestly speaking, quite fairly so. And the
problem is much, much deeper than just Riley, as many would have
you believe. There are many things we do really well, and many
which we should improve as well.
Perhaps this is the most important in my opinion: until 'we'
understand the nuanced difference between letting the game flow
(good) and losing control of the players actions (bad), we will
continue to produce mostly bang average (FIFA) referees in this
country.
Attwell is obviously a talented referee. He is an excellent
athlete, seems to have decent soft skills / interactions with
players, and there is absolutely no reason why he can't be one
of the, say, top fifty referees in Europe. However, while myopic
PGMOL continue to coach him, there is absolutely no way for him
to significantly improve whatsoever (IMO). The same for all of
our PL/FIFA referees outside Taylor/Oliver.
I guess it will be an unpopular opinion here: to be honest, I
came to the conclusion that only a foreigner with a different
way of thinking can really improve our refereeing. But, that's
exactly the opposite of what the PGMOL (clubs!!) want, and you
see that more of exactly the same bubble - Atkinson + Moss - are
now in management roles... :)
#Post#: 47763--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: May 4, 2022, 2:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Entirely agree with you Mikael W. I was watching Makkelie on BT
and there was a class act, see separate thread.
#Post#: 47765--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: ARF
Date: May 4, 2022, 4:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mikael W link ---
>
> I'm not so sure this is the crystal clear penalty which
everyone seems to accept it is. Surridge takes a poor touch from
the through ball, and look at the way he plants his left leg
just ahead of the six-yard box, waiting for the contact to come
with the goalkeeper. He is already falling when Travers touches
him. Admittedly, I accept that most people would still see the
goalkeeper's actions as too careless (-> penalty), but this
situation is not as simple as black vs. white, for me at least.
>
> Though Hatzidakis's mistake certainly is...
>
>
>
HTML https://streamable.com/xwsgn9
>
--- End Quote ---
Not a foul IMO - looks to me like the attacker is already in the
act of throwing himself to the floor when the GK's hand lightly
touches his shin.
#Post#: 47766--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: Claretman
Date: May 4, 2022, 4:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3674.msg47747#msg47747
date=1651612382]
> Well done to Forest and Especially Cooper rising from the
relegation zone to the verge of automatic promotion, hope they
do well in the play offs.
> Congratulations to Bournemouth in getting back to the premier
league, i still cherish watching their first ever game in the
premier league and that valuable match programme i have, it was
worth the 18hour day.
>
--- End Quote ---
Forest have been amazing since Cooper took over. I'd like to see
a Forest v Luton final & either I'd be pleased if they won.
I would have been sat diagonally opposite you in that 1st game.
1-0 defeat to Villa. They flew Mark Clattenburg back from
holiday in Spain to referee it. There were so many changes at
the club over the summer with stuff that had to be brought up to
PL standard and it was chaos. The PL seriously doubted things
were going to go right on the day in terms of protocols etc.
even silly tings like team ref arriving at the ground in 1 car
instead of all arriving separately in their own cars seemed to
be cause for concern so they asked Mark to do the game as he'd
not be fazed by the complete chaos! 1st PL game in my 21 lady
years of watching & I had to leave 5 mins early to get out of
the carpark ahead of the traffic and over to the hotel to get
him back to Gatwick for his flight back to Spain!
[/quote]
Very interesting insight bmb, i enjoyed my day ( perhaps because
Villa won very few games that season, a headed goal from Rudy
Gestede from a set piece ). Had a horrible 7hr drive down from
nth lincs on a hot mid august day, only arrived at 2pm, normally
arrive 2 to 3 hours before, took an hour to get out of
bournemouth afterwards.
Mark had a very good game that day, despite all the chaos he may
have encountered, think i got home about midnight. I will never
forget that important day in Bournemouths history.
#Post#: 47770--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: TVOS
Date: May 4, 2022, 5:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3674.msg47747#msg47747
date=1651612382]
> Well done to Forest and Especially Cooper rising from the
relegation zone to the verge of automatic promotion, hope they
do well in the play offs.
> Congratulations to Bournemouth in getting back to the premier
league, i still cherish watching their first ever game in the
premier league and that valuable match programme i have, it was
worth the 18hour day.
>
--- End Quote ---
Forest have been amazing since Cooper took over. I'd like to see
a Forest v Luton final & either I'd be pleased if they won.
I would have been sat diagonally opposite you in that 1st game.
1-0 defeat to Villa. They flew Mark Clattenburg back from
holiday in Spain to referee it. There were so many changes at
the club over the summer with stuff that had to be brought up to
PL standard and it was chaos. The PL seriously doubted things
were going to go right on the day in terms of protocols etc.
even silly tings like team ref arriving at the ground in 1 car
instead of all arriving separately in their own cars seemed to
be cause for concern so they asked Mark to do the game as he'd
not be fazed by the complete chaos! 1st PL game in my 21 lady
years of watching & I had to leave 5 mins early to get out of
the carpark ahead of the traffic and over to the hotel to get
him back to Gatwick for his flight back to Spain!
[/quote]
Ah yes, you also got me a signed programme from the game. Thanks
for mentioning it again.
#Post#: 47776--------------------------------------------------
Re: S ATTWELL - Bournemouth v Forest
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: May 4, 2022, 5:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mikael W link ---
>
> I just caught up on the second half, and overall, given the
difficulty of game he faced, Attwell did okay IMO (though not
more).
>
> The problem is, and I pointed this out during the EFL Cup
final to some ridicule on here, is that his style is simply a
disaster for challenging assignments. He can't really operate a
stepped approach to take the heat of out his games, relying
instead on his very good physical condition and being close to
incidents in order to keep control.
>
> Indeed, Attwell didn't lose control of this game in the sense
that confrontations broke out. But was he really in control of
what the players were doing in this (tough!) game, or was he
rather flying by the seat of his pants, relying on there not
being a big incident, and the game completely exploding? To me
at least, the answer is clear.
>
> And I agree with AM - the freekick leading to the goal was
more of a dive than a foul. However, the incident is very tricky
as the defender does make a play for the ball and is too slow. I
rather think the Bournemouth player overruns the ball, and then
decides that generating a freekick is his best option, but that
the defender doesn't complain, suggests that attacking freekick
is an at least credible call.
>
> Attwell looked quite lost in the couple of minutes leading up
to that (he allowed 15/20yrds to be stolen at a throw-in, went
to blow for a freekick and then played on), and I'm certain had
some doubts about this call, but plumped to give it in the final
reckoning.
>
> ---
>
> If I may make a more general tangential point here: English
refereeing and PGMOL is/are seen as the laughing stock of
European refereeing. Honestly speaking, quite fairly so. And the
problem is much, much deeper than just Riley, as many would have
you believe. There are many things we do really well, and many
which we should improve as well.
>
> Perhaps this is the most important in my opinion: until 'we'
understand the nuanced difference between letting the game flow
(good) and losing control of the players actions (bad), we will
continue to produce mostly bang average (FIFA) referees in this
country.
>
> Attwell is obviously a talented referee. He is an excellent
athlete, seems to have decent soft skills / interactions with
players, and there is absolutely no reason why he can't be one
of the, say, top fifty referees in Europe. However, while myopic
PGMOL continue to coach him, there is absolutely no way for him
to significantly improve whatsoever (IMO). The same for all of
our PL/FIFA referees outside Taylor/Oliver.
>
> I guess it will be an unpopular opinion here: to be honest, I
came to the conclusion that only a foreigner with a different
way of thinking can really improve our refereeing. But, that's
exactly the opposite of what the PGMOL (clubs!!) want, and you
see that more of exactly the same bubble - Atkinson + Moss - are
now in management roles... :)
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree, Attwell is a good referee who I really like but his
style really is not suited to a heated game. Its similar to
Siebert in Athletico madrid vs Man city.
He loses control of games like the Merseyside Derby and Man City
vs Arsenal.
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