DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 46162--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: April 4, 2022, 3:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Could be a busy few days for Taylor - he's in the Champions
League Wednesday - if he gets the City v Liverpool game Sunday.
Do referees relish two such high profile games so close
together?
#Post#: 46163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: April 4, 2022, 3:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Could be a busy few days for Taylor - he's in the Champions
League Wednesday - if he gets the City v Liverpool game Sunday.
Do referees relish two such high profile games so close
together?
>
--- End Quote ---
Oliver looking likely in the Europa., Guess we will find out the
answer tomorrow
One thing to remember is that Taylor did City vs liverpool at
the Etihad in 18/19 which in theory decided the title
In that game he failed to send Kompany off for a tackle which
could easily have been a red
Because of that could the PL lean to Oliver?
#Post#: 46164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: April 4, 2022, 3:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely they do, in fact I would venture to suggest that they
thrive on such things
#Post#: 46168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: Leggy
Date: April 4, 2022, 4:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> I appreciate the arguments made about the best referees doing
the most important matches, an argument that presumably didn't
apply in 1989 though.
>
> The choice of Oliver or Taylor then is predicated on the
assumption that they are clearly superior to Dean, Atkinson and
Marriner to name but three. I am sure that is how the appointing
powers see it, I am not quite so sure myself.
>
> A real curved ball would be to appoint Moss, if he is
available. He has received such unlikely big appointments over
the years that it would surprise but not shock
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the 1989 argument is a bit of a red herring.
Firstly the appointments were made on a monthly basis, several
weeks in advance. A monthly booklet would be posted (how
quant!) around 3rd-5th of each month for the following month.
Secondly, the 1989 game was rearranged (due to Hillsborough) so
the original game would have scheduled for April. That means
the appointment was public knowledge in early March and made
some time in mid to late February.
At that point it was not at all obvious that it would be the
title decider it turned out to be. Given today's approach to
making appointments, the 1989 appointment could well have been
different.
#Post#: 46171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: guest42
Date: April 4, 2022, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: badref link ---
>
> Have to politely disagree re Gillett. He is a very good ref
but he's only reffed 6 PL games so far this season (Taylor has
22) and is inexperienced in this league -no way is he ready for
a game of this magnitude.
>
> This is simply a massive top flight game in terms of
importance to the title race in a number of seasons so I think
it has to go to our number 1/2 ref (Taylor or Oliver).
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s why I mentioned the point of “due to the mis-management
of the Select Group” - JG should have been used a lot lot more
than he has done higher up based on his experience and standing
prior to coming to the UK.
Could you imagine Oliver or Taylor being told to sit on their
backside or being sent to Wagga Wagga Rovers on the FFA Second
Division every week?
#Post#: 46172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: April 4, 2022, 5:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BAFRA #217 link ---
>
> [quote author=badref link=topic=3552.msg46147#msg46147
date=1649018393]
> Have to politely disagree re Gillett. He is a very good ref
but he's only reffed 6 PL games so far this season (Taylor has
22) and is inexperienced in this league -no way is he ready for
a game of this magnitude.
>
> This is simply a massive top flight game in terms of
importance to the title race in a number of seasons so I think
it has to go to our number 1/2 ref (Taylor or Oliver).
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s why I mentioned the point of “due to the mis-management
of the Select Group” - JG should have been used a lot lot more
than he has done higher up based on his experience and standing
prior to coming to the UK.
Could you imagine Oliver or Taylor being told to sit on their
backside or being sent to Wagga Wagga Rovers on the FFA Second
Division every week?
[/quote]
Or Anthony Taylor being told to be a VAR for the first time this
season
#Post#: 46174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: April 4, 2022, 5:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think Dean, Atkinson and Marriner have all been very fine
referees but probably fair to say they are now past their
absolute peak years (although Marriner seems to have had a very
good season in particular.) I'm not sure that Taylor's domestic
performances over last few seasons have always been as strong as
his appointments suggest, but if that's what their data suggests
so be it. He is certainly a very fine referee on his day.
I remember the run-in to the 2011/12 season, when Man City won
the league. Marriner did the Manchester derby in week 36 and
Dean did Man City V QPR on the final day (it's worth saying
Webb, Atkinson and Clattenburg were all unavailable for the
derby due to a UEFA seminar.) Oliver and Taylor were both pretty
new to the SG1 list at the time. Eventually, it might well be
the case that Oliver/Taylor are no longer appointed to so many
of the biggest games, and England or Brooks or whoever it might
be takes over.
#Post#: 46175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: April 4, 2022, 6:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I can see that there is a very strong logic that dictates that
the PGMOL appoint a UEFA elite referee to this fixture when they
have one available. I think anyone looking externally at the
league would certainly expect that a significant proportion of
the high profile games go to England's UEFA elites as
theoretically at least they should be the strongest two. For
this reason I think that the appointment will go to Oliver or
Taylor and I can't be too critical of that for the reason
stated.
Looking more closely at the options available, previous
appointments to high profile games and current form of referees
I think looking at the wider pool the following could be
considered - Oliver, Taylor, Pawson, Tierney, Marriner,
Atkinson, Dean, Moss.
Oliver I think has had a good season. I don't sense that he has
always been at his top form and has had a little bit of a rocky
time in Europe but on the domestic front has been very solid if
not hitting the heights of his absolute best. Taylor I think has
been the opposite, very good in Europe but domestically he seems
to have had a VAR intervention in almost every 'big' game he has
done in the past season or two. Generally he controls and
manages the game excellently but he seems to have been
unfortunate in that a lot of his mistakes have been KMI errors
leading requiring VAR to overturn.
Pawson has been very strong this season IMO. What I think would
let him down in getting this appointment may be his style of
refereeing. He has a high card count, nearly always correctly
sanctioning card worthy fouls but perhaps not possessing the
preventative management skills the PGMOL may want for a high
profile game of this kind. He has been one of the best officials
this season though and would be a worthy referee for this game.
Tierney has not had a great season. High profile errors in some
high profile games and I think that given his issues with
Liverpool, rightly or wrongly, he won't be considered for this
match.
Marriner has been top class. I think he has a good laid back
style that would suit a game where it is of the utmost
importance (as I suppose is the case in every game) that the
referee is far far from the centre of attention. His fitness
might hold him back in a high octane game a little and he has
refereed Liverpool recently enough but I think he would be a
very solid appointment. Atkinson has been almost totally
anonymous this season it seems to me. A former UEFA elite and
with experience at the highest level I don't think he would be a
bad choice. The PGMOL however seem to be not appointing him
(quite reasonably) to the highest profile games of late in the
way they used to, still a strong contender though IMO. Dean
while always solid I think is definitely out from this game as
they will want to avoid him being involved in any high profile
games given he has announced his retirement, I think they will
see it as drawing too much attention. Moss I include as he has
had some very high profile games in the past and I think has had
a good season. Saying that though I think his level of
appointment has dropped off a little this term (his last game
aside) and I think for the extremely important appointments he
isn't a realistic consideration.
So in my opinion I would have my choices as follows:
Oliver
Pawson
Marriner
Taylor
Atkinson
Saying all of this though I think for the PGMOL it is a straight
shot between Oliver and Taylor. Based on recent appointments -
my guess, Taylor.
#Post#: 46179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: April 4, 2022, 7:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=3552.msg46156#msg46156
date=1649056318]
> I appreciate the arguments made about the best referees doing
the most important matches, an argument that presumably didn't
apply in 1989 though.
>
> The choice of Oliver or Taylor then is predicated on the
assumption that they are clearly superior to Dean, Atkinson and
Marriner to name but three. I am sure that is how the appointing
powers see it, I am not quite so sure myself.
>
> A real curved ball would be to appoint Moss, if he is
available. He has received such unlikely big appointments over
the years that it would surprise but not shock
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the 1989 argument is a bit of a red herring.
Firstly the appointments were made on a monthly basis, several
weeks in advance. A monthly booklet would be posted (how
quant!) around 3rd-5th of each month for the following month.
Secondly, the 1989 game was rearranged (due to Hillsborough) so
the original game would have scheduled for April. That means
the appointment was public knowledge in early March and made
some time in mid to late February.
At that point it was not at all obvious that it would be the
title decider it turned out to be. Given today's approach to
making appointments, the 1989 appointment could well have been
different.
[/quote]
Respectfully I must deny that my herring is red. Yes, the
appointments were made in advance but looking at the table it
was clear that the Liverpool v Arsenal match was going to have a
huge bearing on the destination of the title if not the actual
decider between those two teams. Therefore the appointing powers
could have put a 'big' name on the match, George Courtney, Brian
Hill, Joe Worrall. Neil Midgley, John Martin, Phil Don but they
chose David Hutchinson.
Going back a little earlier in the mid 1970s, such a
distribution of appointments system was taken to a point of
'Reductio ad absurdum' when ACF Turvey was appointed to Arsenal
v Liverpool ( though not a title decider at that point in the
season ) I was there and it was dreadful to behold.
#Post#: 46180--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who will get the Man City vs Liverpool game?
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: April 4, 2022, 7:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The point about the Hillsborough re-arrangement is more valid I
do accept but credit to the then appointing powers for not
taking Hutchinson off the game and replacing him with a big
hitter. I suspect such courtesies may not happen now.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page