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       #Post#: 3028--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: December 4, 2018, 7:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Hendo link=topic=354.msg3007#msg3007
       date=1543877694]
       > [quote author=TheThingFromLewes link=topic=354.msg3001#msg3001
       date=1543865381]
       > [quote author=greeny link=topic=354.msg2994#msg2994
       date=1543860317]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=354.msg2992#msg2992
       date=1543859884]
       > Martin Atkinson must have got Liverpool V Man Utd quite
       quickly - the one where he sent off Paul Scholes.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       His 40th match according to Soccerbase.  It'll be interesting to
       see how quickly Kavanagh gets his next 'big' match.
       [/quote]
       It's interesting that Tierney hasn't received a plum game in his
       tenure yet reached FIFA before Kavanagh
       presumably will.
       Interesting as I was just thinking the same thing.
       Can anyone tell me how many games it was before Lee Mason or
       Roger East got the Manchester, Merseyside or North London
       derbies? 😂
       I don't recall Attwell having a big derby game, aside from the
       infamous Derby v Forest game where he made a right dogs dinner
       of it.
       [/quote]
       [/quote]
       Have always thought that unfair on him - it was his AR that
       messed up big time. I know as ref the buck stops with him but
       the reality is the big error wasn't actually his & should not
       still be following him around imo.  Slate the person who got it
       wrong, not the poor guy who has to take the blame as he had the
       whistle not the flag!
       [/quote]
       I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst I
       think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true
       Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
       Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
       That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should
       especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a
       decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if
       it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps
       expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
       #Post#: 3037--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: December 4, 2018, 10:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Just my personal opinion but I think Attwell was a better
       referee 10 years ago!
       #Post#: 3041--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: December 4, 2018, 11:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       >
       >
       > I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst
       I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true
       Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
       >
       > Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
       >
       > That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should
       especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a
       decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if
       it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps
       expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Ah yes, thanks for the correction, I was thinking of that game &
       the ghost goal. I know the game you mean now & no it wasn't one
       of his finest moments!
       That said it came at a time where everyone (and yes that's an
       overstated generalisation) seemed to be hyper-critical of him.
       I've seen tiny errors that he has made be blown all out of
       proportion that proved the point he was 'the worst ref ever' and
       justified his position particularly in the media as the poster
       boy for poor refereeing, that wouldn't even have rated a mention
       had they been made by one of the more popular refs. He was just
       a kid back then, unfairly promoted too early (not his decision
       and you can't blame him for not saying I'm not sure I'm ready
       yet) and then left to flounder with little or no support, it's
       no wonder his confidence took a massive nose dive. Michael
       Oliver greatly benefitted from Stuart's demise in that whilst he
       was also pushed very young, he was also managed far better and
       there was a better support network in place with him so they did
       not repeat the same mistakes. Yes he's an all round better
       referee as well but he was very well managed as a kid, which
       helped a lot to shape his future. The same can be said for other
       youngsters who have come onto the scene after them in that they
       are managed better and protected more. A positive step by the
       powers that be & I'm glad the lessons were actually learned but
       the media/managers and even some of us on here (that's not a
       dig) can't resist the urge to bring up that very unhappy period
       for him that was not really of his making. I felt sorry for him
       then & I still do now, got a massive soft spot for the kid (I
       still think of him as a kid!) and a lot of respect for him for
       the way he took his demotion and turned into a positive by
       working his socks off to improve himself. I think his far too
       early promotion destroyed that early promise because of the
       whole knock on effect but he's a great little ref on his day &
       really no more error prone than anyone else. His errors though
       will always be jumped on that little bit quicker because of who
       he is.
       #Post#: 3051--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: December 4, 2018, 11:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=354.msg3028#msg3028
       date=1543929686]
       >
       > I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst
       I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true
       Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
       >
       > Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
       >
       > That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should
       especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a
       decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if
       it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps
       expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Ah yes, thanks for the correction, I was thinking of that game &
       the ghost goal. I know the game you mean now & no it wasn't one
       of his finest moments!
       That said it came at a time where everyone (and yes that's an
       overstated generalisation) seemed to be hyper-critical of him.
       I've seen tiny errors that he has made be blown all out of
       proportion that proved the point he was 'the worst ref ever' and
       justified his position particularly in the media as the poster
       boy for poor refereeing, that wouldn't even have rated a mention
       had they been made by one of the more popular refs. He was just
       a kid back then, unfairly promoted too early (not his decision
       and you can't blame him for not saying I'm not sure I'm ready
       yet) and then left to flounder with little or no support, it's
       no wonder his confidence took a massive nose dive. Michael
       Oliver greatly benefitted from Stuart's demise in that whilst he
       was also pushed very young, he was also managed far better and
       there was a better support network in place with him so they did
       not repeat the same mistakes. Yes he's an all round better
       referee as well but he was very well managed as a kid, which
       helped a lot to shape his future. The same can be said for other
       youngsters who have come onto the scene after them in that they
       are managed better and protected more. A positive step by the
       powers that be & I'm glad the lessons were actually learned but
       the media/managers and even some of us on here (that's not a
       dig) can't resist the urge to bring up that very unhappy period
       for him that was not really of his making. I felt sorry for him
       then & I still do now, got a massive soft spot for the kid (I
       still think of him as a kid!) and a lot of respect for him for
       the way he took his demotion and turned into a positive by
       working his socks off to improve himself. I think his far too
       early promotion destroyed that early promise because of the
       whole knock on effect but he's a great little ref on his day &
       really no more error prone than anyone else. His errors though
       will always be jumped on that little bit quicker because of who
       he is.
       [/quote]
       I entirely concur with bmb's analysis. Attwell's first spell on
       SG1 ( or whatever it was called back then ) was fair neither to
       himself nor the Premier League. Promoted ludicrously quickly
       without the experience or maturity to cope with such an intense
       environment, achieving a FIFA badge in no time at all ( though
       it has to be said nowadays if you're the right age it's hard to
       avoid one !) his subsequent career meant that his demotion was
       inevitable and justified.
       He deserves enormous credit for not giving up but sticking to
       his trade, learning and acquiring experience and therefore
       beginning to develop the potential which was seen in him from
       early on. Now deservedly he is back in SG1 and I would say has
       established himself as a middle order hitter comparable to
       Probert, Friend and Scott. I do not think he will ever achieve
       the heights of Atkinson, Oliver or Dean but he is a cut above
       Mason, Moss and East. I have little doubt that the appointment
       to an FA Cup Final will one day come his way.
       #Post#: 3052--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: December 4, 2018, 11:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       My use of technology has again failed me. In my last post I have
       somehow managed to attribute my words to a quote by Readingfan
       to whom I apologise. I should point out that the first two
       paragraphs are my thoughts, the last three are Readingfan's.
       Mods, if you can extricate my contribution and separate it from
       Readingfan's I would be grateful.
       #Post#: 3053--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: December 4, 2018, 11:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       ...as it appears has my spelling !  :-[
       #Post#: 3054--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: Steelman
       Date: December 5, 2018, 5:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=354.msg3028#msg3028
       date=1543929686]
       >
       >
       > I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst
       I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true
       Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
       >
       > Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
       >
       > That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should
       especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a
       decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if
       it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps
       expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Ah yes, thanks for the correction, I was thinking of that game &
       the ghost goal. I know the game you mean now & no it wasn't one
       of his finest moments!
       That said it came at a time where everyone (and yes that's an
       overstated generalisation) seemed to be hyper-critical of him.
       I've seen tiny errors that he has made be blown all out of
       proportion that proved the point he was 'the worst ref ever' and
       justified his position particularly in the media as the poster
       boy for poor refereeing, that wouldn't even have rated a mention
       had they been made by one of the more popular refs. He was just
       a kid back then, unfairly promoted too early (not his decision
       and you can't blame him for not saying I'm not sure I'm ready
       yet) and then left to flounder with little or no support, it's
       no wonder his confidence took a massive nose dive. Michael
       Oliver greatly benefitted from Stuart's demise in that whilst he
       was also pushed very young, he was also managed far better and
       there was a better support network in place with him so they did
       not repeat the same mistakes. Yes he's an all round better
       referee as well but he was very well managed as a kid, which
       helped a lot to shape his future. The same can be said for other
       youngsters who have come onto the scene after them in that they
       are managed better and protected more. A positive step by the
       powers that be & I'm glad the lessons were actually learned but
       the media/managers and even some of us on here (that's not a
       dig) can't resist the urge to bring up that very unhappy period
       for him that was not really of his making. I felt sorry for him
       then & I still do now, got a massive soft spot for the kid (I
       still think of him as a kid!) and a lot of respect for him for
       the way he took his demotion and turned into a positive by
       working his socks off to improve himself. I think his far too
       early promotion destroyed that early promise because of the
       whole knock on effect but he's a great little ref on his day &
       really no more error prone than anyone else. His errors though
       will always be jumped on that little bit quicker because of who
       he is.
       [/quote]
       I always thought that Stuart Attwell was an easy target in his
       first spell on the Premier League list. And, I also think that
       some of that came from him being the "favoured child" of David
       Elleray who seemed to want to push Attwell as far and as fast as
       he could. This did not sit well with people whether that was out
       of jealousy or out of a disliking for Lord Elleray as he was
       referred to I don't know, could be both. It does show the
       character of Attwell to bounce back and to a large extent prove
       his critics wrong.
       #Post#: 3055--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: December 5, 2018, 6:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
       >
       > My use of technology has again failed me. In my last post I
       have somehow managed to attribute my words to a quote by
       Readingfan to whom I apologise. I should point out that the
       first two paragraphs are my thoughts, the last three are
       Readingfan's.
       >
       > Mods, if you can extricate my contribution and separate it
       from Readingfan's I would be grateful.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Fixed along with your spelling
       C- for you!  ;D
       #Post#: 3057--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: JCFC
       Date: December 5, 2018, 6:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Fixed ... your spelling
       C- for you!  ;D
       In best pantomime tradition "Oh no you haven't!"
       #Post#: 3058--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: December 5, 2018, 6:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JCFC link ---
       >
       > Fixed ... your spelling
       >
       > C- for you!  ;D
       >
       >
       > In best pantomime tradition "Oh no you haven't!"
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Did I miss one? I got wil not will!!!
       C+ for bmb  ;D
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