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#Post#: 44172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Conference/National League Promotion Final
DIR By: WaitAndSee
Date: February 15, 2022, 5:11 pm
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My recollection was that Gary went for a routine heart screening
assessment (one of the PGMOL benefits offered to officials on
the list) and there was an issue detected. I believe he was
advised not to continue refereeing, as he could be at risk and
is therefore now currently performing duties as an Observer on
the Football League instead.
#Post#: 44293--------------------------------------------------
Re: Conference/National League Promotion Final
DIR By: Hendo
Date: February 19, 2022, 3:07 pm
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--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> Michael Naylor - I miss seeing him about. Such a promising
young referee & a lovely guy.
>
--- End Quote ---
Class act. Would undoubtedly have been on FIFA if injury had not
forced him to retire and, in my humble opinion, probably
challenging Oliver and Taylor. Such a tragedy that his full
potential was never realised
#Post#: 44305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Conference/National League Promotion Final
DIR By: DBLTFC
Date: February 20, 2022, 7:00 am
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Watching Luton in the Conference between 2009 and 2014 it was
apparent that there were a lot of very good referees at the
level at that time. More so than at the level above.
We had Coote, Kavanagh, Simpson, Bankes, Harrington a regular
basis. But also some refs that are still at that level and never
gone any further.
#Post#: 44310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Conference/National League Promotion Final
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 20, 2022, 8:51 am
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--- Quote from: DBLTFC link ---
>
> Watching Luton in the Conference between 2009 and 2014 it was
apparent that there were a lot of very good referees at the
level at that time. More so than at the level above.
>
> We had Coote, Kavanagh, Simpson, Bankes, Harrington a regular
basis. But also some refs that are still at that level and never
gone any further.
>
--- End Quote ---
Some of the referees you mention have gone on to scale much
greater heights though in two of those whom you mention, Coote
and Simpson, I believe over-promotion has happened. I have never
seen Harrington and know little about him so can't comment
there.
With refereeing and ARing ( to coin a word ) as with most
professions, there is great virtue in realising when you have
reached your best and optimal level. I would suggest this is
when you feel challenged but are quite sure you are meeting
those challenges by and large successfully. Of course it can
always be argued that until one reaches a higher level, one
doesn't really know whether that is the appropriate tier for
one's talents and abilities which is why the Peter principle is
so often seen in operation. Perhaps some of the referees who
stayed at Conference level took the wisest course.
I knew in refereeing terms that I was most comfortable and
effective in the somewhat niche level I attained. I am quite
sure that I would have been hopeless at trying to climb up to
the top. In professional terms I suppose I was reasonably
successful without being stellar but some of the 'stars' of my
generation did burn themselves out somewhat, while others
deservedly received honour and kudos.
#Post#: 44312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Conference/National League Promotion Final
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: February 20, 2022, 9:22 am
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--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=DBLTFC link=topic=3373.msg44305#msg44305
date=1645362040]
> Watching Luton in the Conference between 2009 and 2014 it was
apparent that there were a lot of very good referees at the
level at that time. More so than at the level above.
>
> We had Coote, Kavanagh, Simpson, Bankes, Harrington a regular
basis. But also some refs that are still at that level and never
gone any further.
>
--- End Quote ---
Some of the referees you mention have gone on to scale much
greater heights though in two of those whom you mention, Coote
and Simpson, I believe over-promotion has happened. I have never
seen Harrington and know little about him so can't comment
there.
With refereeing and ARing ( to coin a word ) as with most
professions, there is great virtue in realising when you have
reached your best and optimal level. I would suggest this is
when you feel challenged but are quite sure you are meeting
those challenges by and large successfully. Of course it can
always be argued that until one reaches a higher level, one
doesn't really know whether that is the appropriate tier for
one's talents and abilities which is why the Peter principle is
so often seen in operation. Perhaps some of the referees who
stayed at Conference level took the wisest course.
I knew in refereeing terms that I was most comfortable and
effective in the somewhat niche level I attained. I am quite
sure that I would have been hopeless at trying to climb up to
the top. In professional terms I suppose I was reasonably
successful without being stellar but some of the 'stars' of my
generation did burn themselves out somewhat, while others
deservedly received honour and kudos.
[/quote]
You make a very interesting observation, and it’s probably true
that the Peter Principle is in full flow in refereeing. After
all, why should it happen in ‘normal’ workplaces and not
refereeing?
It must be particularly difficult to fast track promising
officials, given ‘performance’ can be quite subjective and
individual styles can be quite appealing to some, but not
others.
The one aspect I admire in the English game, is that even
without making it to the Premier League, it must be incredibly
rewarding being able to visit 72 league grounds and countless NL
teams. I presume that once you’re at L2/L1 level your
appointments can take you anywhere in the country?
The Scottish game is somewhat similar, albeit with a much
smaller number of clubs, and so ‘collecting’ all teams/grounds
can be done quicker.
I presume the English setup has an equal issue with
communication and opaque development planning, such that
officials are making decisions with a lack of information (how
their marks compare to others, how the FA etc might see their
progress). I suspect a lot of officials are lost before their
time because of this, and equally many officials continue to
toil for promotion despite that never being an option, as
unbeknown to them, decisions have already been made.
Perhaps, a more transparent internal system would allow for
greater movement, and as you say, officials being more content
with their respective levels?
Though it’s not related to this thread, I suspect there will be
significant movement in the categories in Scotland this summer.
Poor planning, COVID delays (and personnel losses), as well as
the introduction of VAR is going to force a lot of change.
Great opportunities to be had for officials, but also (no doubt)
some ‘unavoidable’ issues that you describe of over-promotion.
#Post#: 44318--------------------------------------------------
Re: Conference/National League Promotion Final
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 20, 2022, 12:12 pm
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--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> Discussion about Simon Mather prompted a look back in the
archives - fair to say a mixed bag of "onward success"
> 2003 - Andre Marriner
> 2004 - Keith Stroud
> 2005 - Jon Moss
> 2006 - Dean Whitestone
> 2007 - Michael Oliver
> 2008 - Craig Pawson
> 2009 - Gary Sutton
> 2010 - Michael Naylor
> 2011 - James Adcock
> 2012 - Jeremy Simpson
> 2013 - Mike Bull
> 2014 - Peter Bankes
> 2015 - Ross Joyce
> 2016 - Rob Jones
> 2017 - Anthony Backhouse
> 2018 - Neil Hair
> 2019 - James Oldham
> 2020 - James Bell
> 2021 - Simon Mather
>
--- End Quote ---
A most interesting list. Thank you for showing it. Of the
established names I would say the stars are Marriner, Oliver and
Pawson. Of those perhaps still waiting to receive a promotion
but still very fine referees I would pick Whitestone ( though
2006 is a long time ago ) and Hair. Naylor I did not ever get
to know but many people in the game, whose opinion I respect, I
have said he was a great loss to refereeing with tremendous
potential still untapped.
What the list shows is that you can be extremely good at one
level ( I believe this appointment is given to the referee at
the top of the appropriate Merit List) and then go on to excel
at a higher level or sadly not. The Peter principle, referred to
above on this thread, also applies to some on this list.
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