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#Post#: 43797--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not a good day for football
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: February 7, 2022, 3:18 am
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The leaders in our country set a very poor example but respect
disappeared a long time ago. Consideration of others is simply
not on many people's agenda. It is all about my rights, what I
can do for myself, selfishness, failure to consider one's
actions on other people and to hell with anyone else. Topical,
antivaxers are another example - all about self in spite of the
scientific beneficial evidence of vaccines and that other
people's true, fundamental rights, not imagined rights, such as
the right to life and freedom from fear, are protected. Drink
and drugs are contributory factors at football matches but so
are social issues but there is so much deep rooted hate in
society. As an example, anger, negativity, hatred pours out on
social media. Yes most people are decent respectful human beings
but a significant minority are not.
Football can do better. Accept the problem as highlighted in the
Wembley debacle and given the financial resources available to
the clubs police and steward the games accordingly.
#Post#: 43799--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not a good day for football
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: February 7, 2022, 3:48 am
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I will pick up on the two most recent posts if I may?
Agreed Society has changed and not for the better. Some feel an
entitlement to do what they want, where an when they want to an
b*gger everyone else who, in their view are the ones needing to
change, to become more aggressive, more acquisitive and to stamp
all over everyone else to achieve what they want.
A significant contributory factor though has been the change in
Political Landscape, not just recent events, although they
haven't helped, but the whole ethos of if you have the power
then you are entitled to do what you want and the best way of
gaining or retaining power is to subjugate others either by
physical force (hooliganism?) or by socio economic control
#Post#: 43803--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not a good day for football
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 7, 2022, 7:44 am
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I agree that most people are fairly decent and altruistic at
heart. However the minority who aren't have such a
disproportionate effect on the rest of society by their
self-centred preoccupations. Over my adult lifetime a terrible
egoism has crept into understanding what it means to be an
individual. No longer is one's own conduct seen in relation with
those whom it affects but rather total self-expression takes
precedence without much concern for the effect it has on others.
The dreadful 'my' word has large replaced 'our'. So, my rights,
my entitlement, my needs, my choices and the ultimate piece of
moral bankruptcy my truth.
I don't subscribe to the mantra that the good old days were
always better. In some respects they weren't. The opportunity
for women to have a better chance of breaking through the glass
ceiling and the widespread acceptance for gay people to commit
to partnerships and marriage are two really positive advances.
However I do think there is a worrying tendency for rugged
individualism to morph in to ruthless individualism.
Institutions in society now have to earn respect rather than
there be a default position of it being granted automatically
and that is not a bad thing.
#Post#: 43806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not a good day for football
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: February 7, 2022, 9:33 am
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--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> I agree that most people are fairly decent and altruistic at
heart. However the minority who aren't have such a
disproportionate effect on the rest of society by their
self-centred preoccupations. Over my adult lifetime a terrible
egoism has crept into understanding what it means to be an
individual. No longer is one's own conduct seen in relation with
those whom it affects but rather total self-expression takes
precedence without much concern for the effect it has on others.
The dreadful 'my' word has large replaced 'our'. So, my rights,
my entitlement, my needs, my choices and the ultimate piece of
moral bankruptcy my truth.
>
> I don't subscribe to the mantra that the good old days were
always better. In some respects they weren't. The opportunity
for women to have a better chance of breaking through the glass
ceiling and the widespread acceptance for gay people to commit
to partnerships and marriage are two really positive advances.
However I do think there is a worrying tendency for rugged
individualism to morph in to ruthless individualism.
>
> Institutions in society now have to earn respect rather than
there be a default position of it being granted automatically
and that is not a bad thing.
>
--- End Quote ---
Completely agree with everything said here.
The hugely disappointing aspect, is that over the last 5-10
years, behaviour and extreme opinions seem to have become more
entrenched. Sure, we can blame our political leaders like
Johnson and Trump for whom trust is a minor inconvenience, but a
decent number of the population have revelled in the
opportunity.
It's difficult to tell whether racism was ever really reduced,
or whether it was just pushed below the surface and/or ignored.
One thing does seem real however, racists and bigots have become
empowered and seem confident enough to barrage their chosen
players at any given moment. They do seem to act without
impunity, and there has been a total failure of leadership, both
politically and in sport. The fact that the sensible voices in
British public life re sport come only from the likes of Klopp
(not alone, but it's a very small group), show the vacuum we
live in. Having the dimmest lights responsible for culture like
Nadine Dorries give me no confidence of the issues being taken
seriously.
Violence, disorder, and general offensiveness in football seems
to be increasing, or at least becoming far more visible. I just
can't ever imagine the Wembley situation having occurred 10
years ago, and perhaps that is the result of a perfect storm of
recent circumstance. However, without some significant change
to leadership where it's needed, I don't see it getting better
any time soon.
#Post#: 43853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not a good day for football
DIR By: jad
Date: February 8, 2022, 9:21 am
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I can, however, imagine the Wembley incidents, or something
similar, occurring forty or fifty years ago, because, being old,
I can remember what football was like between the late 1960s and
the mid-1980s, when scenes of violence or disorder in or around
football grounds were by no means uncommon. Without necessarily
disagreeing with anything said here, I can't help feeling that
the problem is rather more complicated and that perhaps we are
dealing with something cyclical. Put somewhat schematically,
what I am suggesting is that a period of violence is followed by
a programme of changes (all-seater stadia, restrictions on
alcohol etc.) which do indeed have some success, with the result
that people become complacent, the restrictions start to be
applied less rigorously and so the cycle starts all over again.
Everybody who was around at the time I mentioned will have their
own catalogue of unseemly or violent incidents. One brought to
mind by the first post on this thread was something I witnessed
at a Soviet cup tie between SKA Rostov-on-Don and Karpaty L'viv
back in 1971. As the players were leaving the field, a linesman
was seen to collapse, having been hit, it transpired, by a
bottle thrown from the stand. And that in a country where the
forces of law and order sometimes outnumbered the crowd. Sadly,
there is nothing new and very little that is specific to one
particular location.
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