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#Post#: 42929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: Referee99
Date: January 15, 2022, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
#Post#: 42930--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: GingerReferee
Date: January 15, 2022, 9:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Referee99 link ---
>
> Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
>
--- End Quote ---
As an arsenal fan I don't want this being postponed, but this is
the first time we have requested so would be really unfair to
not
#Post#: 42931--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 15, 2022, 10:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Referee99 link ---
>
> Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
>
--- End Quote ---
Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games
called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which
teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much
an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think
tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury
related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.
#Post#: 42932--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: Leggy
Date: January 15, 2022, 10:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Fan link=topic=3271.msg42916#msg42916
date=1642200288]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=3271.msg42820#msg42820
date=1642017638]
> When one thinks of some of the really good referees of
yesteryear who never got awarded either the FA or League Cup
Final, it is extraordinary to think that a referee of moderate
ability like Jon Moss has had them both. However, the olden days
were by no means perfect for they also threw up their share of
extraordinary ( considering the paucity of their talent ) double
Cup Final appointees among whom I would include Gordon Kew,
Roger Milford ( contentious this choice as I know some really
rated him ), Keith Hackett, Mike Riley and most notably Peter
Willis whom to call moderate is to be exceedingly generous.
>
> There were also many fine referees who received the double
Final honour, most particularly Jack Taylor, George Courtney,
Neil Midgley, Joe Worrall (of course) and Peter Jones and others
besides, I am sure.
>
--- End Quote ---
I found myself agreeing with nearly all the referees listed in
both categories. As Whistleblower mentions, some really rated
Milford and I must admit I rather enjoyed watching him referee
for most of his career, perhaps influenced at the time by his
'matey' style. However, his FA Cup Final performance and those
awful Gascoigne challenges persuaded me I'd been misguided.
Of those who received the double of Finals, I don't recall
seeing a lot of Peter Jones although I know he was very well
respected. But Taylor, Courtney, Midgley and Worrall were all
referees I thought were superb and were certainly 4 of my
favourites from past decades. I would add Pat Partridge who also
refereed both the FA Cup and League Cup Finals. In the 1978
World Cup where he was England's representative, he was perhaps
unlucky only to get 1 game in the middle and 2 line
appointments. I think he only refereed a single match in the
1980 European Championships too.
So thanks Whistleblower. Some great names there as well as the
'moderates'.
Sorry to go off topic but I enjoy the nostalgia.
[/quote]
Jim Parker from Preston… the ultimate card shark.
I’m sure others on here remember his strict disciplinary
measures?!
[/quote]
I remember Jim very well, a referee who had no hesitation is
dismissing a player if it was needed. Also had/has a terrific
sense of humour. I believe he gave a lot back to Lancs football
but being 250 miles away, others will know much better. A
character when referees were allowed to be characters ......
#Post#: 42934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 15, 2022, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Referee99 link=topic=3271.msg42929#msg42929
date=1642257842]
> Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
>
--- End Quote ---
Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games
called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which
teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much
an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think
tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury
related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.
[/quote]
That's the problem, the rumour is that Arsenal only have one
player absent through Covid. They have four players away at
AFCON , several injured and Xhaka suspended, and there is a
squad rule in the EPL that will let them get away with
postponement. In the EPL you have to register a squad of 25
players at the start and end of each transfer window, but
crucially you don't need to name anyone aged under 21 but they
are automatically eligible to play. Arsenal will probably
actually have the minimum number of 13 players, but they san say
that the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Tavares, Nketiah and
Smith-Rowe don't count as they almost certainly aren't named
players in the squad of 25, simply because they don't need to be
as they were 21 or under at the start of the season. If you
don't count those players then they probably do have less than
13 available, but that is a nonsense.
Suporters now lose out on travel cost, hotel cost, etc, local
pubs and cafes lose out on revenue, having probably got extra
supplies in for a massive local derby, and it really just isn't
right.
#Post#: 42935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 15, 2022, 11:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Referee99 link=topic=3271.msg42929#msg42929
date=1642257842]
> Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
>
--- End Quote ---
Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games
called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which
teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much
an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think
tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury
related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.
[/quote]
I think it is a tough one.
Personally I'd probably have said games could only be postponed
if intervention from public health authorities - e.g. if
training ground is ordered to be closed or entire squad forced
into isolation (I guess less likely to happen now as close
contacts don't have to self-isolate if they've been vaccinated -
but of course that's another layer to all of this, as not all
players will have been.) I'd maybe have allowed clubs to have a
larger squad and asked them to consider implications of
transfers/loans etc.
But one of the aspects seems to be sporting integrity. Obviously
that was never really an issue before Covid - if you had a lot
of players absent because of internationals/injuries then it was
just tough and you had to get on with it.
Should Covid materially change that? If you're allowing a team
to postpone a game due to integrity of league if they have 12
Covid cases, then is it then fair to prevent them from doing
this if they have 3 Covid cases and 9 players at the African Cup
of Nations? What if they have 11 Covid cases and 1 player at
African Cup of Nations? Or if a player tests positive who is
injured for 3 months so couldn't have played anyway?
It is not an easy balance to achieve - and I'm not sure it would
be fair to change the rules mid-season, even if they are having
unintended consequences.
#Post#: 42936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 15, 2022, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> Arsenal will probably actually have the minimum number of 13
players, but they san say that the likes of Saka, Martinelli,
Tavares, Nketiah and Smith-Rowe don't count as they almost
certainly aren't named players in the squad of 25, simply
because they don't need to be as they were 21 or under at the
start of the season. If you don't count those players then they
probably do have less than 13 available, but that is a nonsense.
>
> Suporters now lose out on travel cost, hotel cost, etc, local
pubs and cafes lose out on revenue, having probably got extra
supplies in for a massive local derby, and it really just isn't
right.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is a loophole that needs to be closed then, it's just plain
wrong.
As to the detrimental effect it has on supporters and local
trade - completely agree with you.
#Post#: 42937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 15, 2022, 12:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=3271.msg42931#msg42931
date=1642262970]
> [quote author=Referee99 link=topic=3271.msg42929#msg42929
date=1642257842]
> Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
>
--- End Quote ---
Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games
called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which
teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much
an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think
tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury
related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.
[/quote]
I think it is a tough one.
Personally I'd probably have said games could only be postponed
if intervention from public health authorities - e.g. if
training ground is ordered to be closed or entire squad forced
into isolation (I guess less likely to happen now as close
contacts don't have to self-isolate if they've been vaccinated -
but of course that's another layer to all of this, as not all
players will have been.) I'd maybe have allowed clubs to have a
larger squad and asked them to consider implications of
transfers/loans etc.
But one of the aspects seems to be sporting integrity. Obviously
that was never really an issue before Covid - if you had a lot
of players absent because of internationals/injuries then it was
just tough and you had to get on with it.
Should Covid materially change that? If you're allowing a team
to postpone a game due to integrity of league if they have 12
Covid cases, then is it then fair to prevent them from doing
this if they have 3 Covid cases and 9 players at the African Cup
of Nations? What if they have 11 Covid cases and 1 player at
African Cup of Nations? Or if a player tests positive who is
injured for 3 months so couldn't have played anyway?
It is not an easy balance to achieve - and I'm not sure it would
be fair to change the rules mid-season, even if they are having
unintended consequences.
[/quote]
The difference for me is that covid is highly contagious so yes
it should be treated differently. They already have changed the
rules mid season - they now count covid + injuries, whereas
before it was just covid. I don't believe teams should have the
same leeway for postponement due to injury (as has been the way
for years) and especially not because players are missing due to
AFCON. They know when they sign the players they'll be away for
it so that's on their transfer/signing policy. They can change
that by signing more British players or just non African players
even to balance their squad better. If a team chooses to sign a
high number of players who will be going to AFCON then they
can't then complain about squad shortages when they do, imo.
They certainly should not be allowed to use it as a basis for
postponements. If they have regularly played players who fall
into the not needing to be named in the 25 man squad because
they are under 21 category, then those players should
automatically be counted towards the 13 needed. If they're good
enough to play week in week out then close the loophole of them
not being counted when there is an issue. It's not that long ago
one of the London clubs played a European game despite the team
being decimated due to food poisoning because they were refused
a postponement. That same precedent should be used for injuries,
imo.
#Post#: 42938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: TVOS
Date: January 15, 2022, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=3271.msg42925#msg42925 date=1642251898]
> [quote author=Ref Fan link=topic=3271.msg42916#msg42916
date=1642200288]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=3271.msg42820#msg42820
date=1642017638]
> When one thinks of some of the really good referees of
yesteryear who never got awarded either the FA or League Cup
Final, it is extraordinary to think that a referee of moderate
ability like Jon Moss has had them both. However, the olden days
were by no means perfect for they also threw up their share of
extraordinary ( considering the paucity of their talent ) double
Cup Final appointees among whom I would include Gordon Kew,
Roger Milford ( contentious this choice as I know some really
rated him ), Keith Hackett, Mike Riley and most notably Peter
Willis whom to call moderate is to be exceedingly generous.
>
> There were also many fine referees who received the double
Final honour, most particularly Jack Taylor, George Courtney,
Neil Midgley, Joe Worrall (of course) and Peter Jones and others
besides, I am sure.
>
--- End Quote ---
I found myself agreeing with nearly all the referees listed in
both categories. As Whistleblower mentions, some really rated
Milford and I must admit I rather enjoyed watching him referee
for most of his career, perhaps influenced at the time by his
'matey' style. However, his FA Cup Final performance and those
awful Gascoigne challenges persuaded me I'd been misguided.
Of those who received the double of Finals, I don't recall
seeing a lot of Peter Jones although I know he was very well
respected. But Taylor, Courtney, Midgley and Worrall were all
referees I thought were superb and were certainly 4 of my
favourites from past decades. I would add Pat Partridge who also
refereed both the FA Cup and League Cup Finals. In the 1978
World Cup where he was England's representative, he was perhaps
unlucky only to get 1 game in the middle and 2 line
appointments. I think he only refereed a single match in the
1980 European Championships too.
So thanks Whistleblower. Some great names there as well as the
'moderates'.
Sorry to go off topic but I enjoy the nostalgia.
[/quote]
Jim Parker from Preston… the ultimate card shark.
I’m sure others on here remember his strict disciplinary
measures?!
[/quote]
I remember Jim very well, a referee who had no hesitation is
dismissing a player if it was needed. Also had/has a terrific
sense of humour. I believe he gave a lot back to Lancs football
but being 250 miles away, others will know much better. A
character when referees were allowed to be characters ......
[/quote]
I was invited to a pre-season game at the Lancashire FA
headquarters a few years ago by one of the officials. While
sitting in the bar pre-match, I noticed Jim Parker seemed to be
running the food side of things and someone like Eddie
Wolstenholme, who was sat at our table, claimed Parker's chilli
con carne * was legendary in those parts!
* It might have been curry
#Post#: 42941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 15, 2022, 2:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=3271.msg42931#msg42931
date=1642262970]
> [quote author=Referee99 link=topic=3271.msg42929#msg42929
date=1642257842]
> Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that
spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs
leicester being called off
>
--- End Quote ---
Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games
called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which
teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much
an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think
tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury
related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.
[/quote]
That's the problem, the rumour is that Arsenal only have one
player absent through Covid. They have four players away at
AFCON , several injured and Xhaka suspended, and there is a
squad rule in the EPL that will let them get away with
postponement. In the EPL you have to register a squad of 25
players at the start and end of each transfer window, but
crucially you don't need to name anyone aged under 21 but they
are automatically eligible to play. Arsenal will probably
actually have the minimum number of 13 players, but they san say
that the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Tavares, Nketiah and
Smith-Rowe don't count as they almost certainly aren't named
players in the squad of 25, simply because they don't need to be
as they were 21 or under at the start of the season. If you
don't count those players then they probably do have less than
13 available, but that is a nonsense.
Suporters now lose out on travel cost, hotel cost, etc, local
pubs and cafes lose out on revenue, having probably got extra
supplies in for a massive local derby, and it really just isn't
right.
[/quote]
The PL website suggests those players would be taken into
account as they have first team league experience - 'where a
club cannot field 13 outfield players and a goalkeeper, either
from their squad or appropriately experienced under 21 players,
the match will be postponed'.
HTML https://www.premierleague.com/news/2426753
*****************************************************
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