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#Post#: 42696--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 10, 2022, 4:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued
that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was
never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt
see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident
initially and neither did th ar flag.
> Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.
>
--- End Quote ---
It was given for offside by Ramsey as Oliver raised his arm
after giving it, it wasn't for any potential foul. Therefore
Oliver couldn't give it real time as he isn't looking for
offsides, and it is a long way from the AR for him to determine
the contact.
As I said in the earlier post, I am far from sure it should have
been disallowed, but I can just about see why it was.
#Post#: 42697--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: doowe
Date: January 10, 2022, 4:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
After Oliver reviewed the incident and disallowed the ‘goal’, he
clearly raised his arm to restart the game with an indirect free
kick. Why should it take over 3 minutes to judge an offside or
am I missing something?
Edit We must have posted together Rustyref
#Post#: 42698--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: Claretman
Date: January 10, 2022, 4:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3270.msg42694#msg42694
date=1641854117]
> With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued
that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was
never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt
see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident
initially and neither did th ar flag.
> Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.
>
--- End Quote ---
It was given for offside by Ramsey as Oliver raised his arm
after giving it, it wasn't for any potential foul. Therefore
Oliver couldn't give it real time as he isn't looking for
offsides, and it is a long way from the AR for him to determine
the contact.
As I said in the earlier post, I am far from sure it should have
been disallowed, but I can just about see why it was.
[/quote]
But unless Ramsey committed a foul and prevented Cavani getting
to the ball because of the foul, which is debatable, He could
not be given offside as he didnt play the ball and wasnt
interfering with play.
Whether watkins touched the ball is another matter but the ball
didnt seem to move in its trajectory as us cricket fans would
say.
I cant make up my mind whether ramsay stopped cavani playing the
ball or if watkins touched it also rustyref but perhaps oliver
gave an indirect free kick for obstruction rather than offside.
#Post#: 42699--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: January 10, 2022, 5:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Is the referee only sent to the monitor for an offside decision
if it's a judgement as to whether a player is interfering -
possibly obscuring a goalkeeper's view or in this case assessed
as preventing an opponent getting to the ball? Must admit when
I saw Oliver go to the screen I assumed initially it was for a
foul on Cavani, which turned out to be not so.
I wasn't conscious of potential pi by Shaw before he was
cautioned but I agree Fernandes and the Villa player were
fortunate.
#Post#: 42700--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: Claretman
Date: January 10, 2022, 5:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Is the referee only sent to the monitor for an offside
decision if it's a judgement as to whether a player is
interfering - possibly obscuring a goalkeeper's view or in this
case assessed as preventing an opponent getting to the ball?
Must admit when I saw Oliver go to the screen I assumed
initially it was for a foul on Cavani, which turned out to be
not so.
>
> I wasn't conscious of potential pi by Shaw before he was
cautioned but I agree Fernandes and the Villa player were
fortunate.
>
--- End Quote ---
The more i think about this and var protocol i think oliver has
given an indirect free kick against
Ramsey for obstruction on cavani
#Post#: 42701--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 10, 2022, 5:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=3270.msg42696#msg42696
date=1641854699]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3270.msg42694#msg42694
date=1641854117]
> With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued
that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was
never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt
see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident
initially and neither did th ar flag.
> Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.
>
--- End Quote ---
It was given for offside by Ramsey as Oliver raised his arm
after giving it, it wasn't for any potential foul. Therefore
Oliver couldn't give it real time as he isn't looking for
offsides, and it is a long way from the AR for him to determine
the contact.
As I said in the earlier post, I am far from sure it should have
been disallowed, but I can just about see why it was.
[/quote]
But unless Ramsey committed a foul and prevented Cavani getting
to the ball because of the foul, which is debatable, He could
not be given offside as he didnt play the ball and wasnt
interfering with play.
Whether watkins touched the ball is another matter but the ball
didnt seem to move in its trajectory as us cricket fans would
say.
I cant make up my mind whether ramsay stopped cavani playing the
ball or if watkins touched it also rustyref but perhaps oliver
gave an indirect free kick for obstruction rather than offside.
[/quote]
They will have said he was interfering with an opponent ...
[I] interfering with an opponent by:
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability
of an opponent to play the ball [/i]
There is no doubt whatsoever he was in an offside position. I
don't think he challenged Cavani for the ball, but there is an
argument that he was in an offside position and prevented Cavani
any opportunity to play the ball by blocking him off.
First time I've ever seen an on-field review used for offside
though.
#Post#: 42702--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: January 10, 2022, 5:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I noticed Oliver took time to explain the decision to a couple
of Villa Players. We've seen goals disallowed for a player
interfering with a goalkeepers line of sight but was there an
OFR in that situation? I had a feeling there was but could be
wrong.
#Post#: 42703--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: ajb95
Date: January 10, 2022, 5:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scally Bob link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=3270.msg42692#msg42692
date=1641853615]
> Only saw the second half, but how long did that VAR review
take? Ridiculous. If it was taking that long then it isn’t a
clear and obvious error
>
> Think both Shaw and McGinn were lucky it was a cup game as I
think both would have been off had it been a league game
>
--- End Quote ---
The Laws don’t change for different competitions. Shaw should
have been cautioned long before he was either for the reckless
challenge on the touch line or for persistent infringement.
Fernandes should also have been cautioned much earlier.
Michael Oliver is our best referee but I don’t think tonight was
his usual standard.
[/quote]
True, but it’s quite a common thing nowadays that referees
certainly officiate in a more lenient manner for a cup game than
a league game. Whether you think that’s right or wrong that’s
how it is
#Post#: 42704--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: January 10, 2022, 6:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3270.msg42698#msg42698
date=1641855312]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=3270.msg42696#msg42696
date=1641854699]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3270.msg42694#msg42694
date=1641854117]
> With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued
that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was
never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt
see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident
initially and neither did th ar flag.
> Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.
>
--- End Quote ---
It was given for offside by Ramsey as Oliver raised his arm
after giving it, it wasn't for any potential foul. Therefore
Oliver couldn't give it real time as he isn't looking for
offsides, and it is a long way from the AR for him to determine
the contact.
As I said in the earlier post, I am far from sure it should have
been disallowed, but I can just about see why it was.
[/quote]
But unless Ramsey committed a foul and prevented Cavani getting
to the ball because of the foul, which is debatable, He could
not be given offside as he didnt play the ball and wasnt
interfering with play.
Whether watkins touched the ball is another matter but the ball
didnt seem to move in its trajectory as us cricket fans would
say.
I cant make up my mind whether ramsay stopped cavani playing the
ball or if watkins touched it also rustyref but perhaps oliver
gave an indirect free kick for obstruction rather than offside.
[/quote]
They will have said he was interfering with an opponent ...
[I] interfering with an opponent by:
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability
of an opponent to play the ball [/i]
There is no doubt whatsoever he was in an offside position. I
don't think he challenged Cavani for the ball, but there is an
argument that he was in an offside position and prevented Cavani
any opportunity to play the ball by blocking him off.
First time I've ever seen an on-field review used for offside
though.
[/quote]
The majority of FIFA videos for interfering with play are clips
like this one. As you say, he prevented Cavani having any
opportunity to play the ball.
It’s 100% an offside decision. For those in the officiating in
the English game, I would be highly surprised if that wasn’t one
of your monthly/annual training clips that local associations
put on within the next 12 months. It’s a great clip for
grassroots, and senior training.
#Post#: 42705--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
DIR By: Leggy
Date: January 11, 2022, 2:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=Scally Bob link=topic=3270.msg42693#msg42693
date=1641854075]
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=3270.msg42692#msg42692
date=1641853615]
> Only saw the second half, but how long did that VAR review
take? Ridiculous. If it was taking that long then it isn’t a
clear and obvious error
>
> Think both Shaw and McGinn were lucky it was a cup game as I
think both would have been off had it been a league game
>
--- End Quote ---
The Laws don’t change for different competitions. Shaw should
have been cautioned long before he was either for the reckless
challenge on the touch line or for persistent infringement.
Fernandes should also have been cautioned much earlier.
Michael Oliver is our best referee but I don’t think tonight was
his usual standard.
[/quote]
True, but it’s quite a common thing nowadays that referees
certainly officiate in a more lenient manner for a cup game than
a league game. Whether you think that’s right or wrong that’s
how it is
[/quote]
I don't think it is wrong. I know it is.
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