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       #Post#: 41350--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: Acme Thunderer
       Date: December 17, 2021, 4:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree with the above comments re no-win situation. If a player
       collapses, play should and would be stopped immediately
       nowadays. If there is an obvious clash of heads, with or without
       blood, then again play should be stopped. In these two
       situations, I suggest the reaction of other players makes it
       obvious that there is a serious problem, in the same way as for
       a potential leg break. Other than these, it should be left to
       the ref to decide whether to stop play.
       #Post#: 41354--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: Ref Watcher
       Date: December 17, 2021, 7:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
       > His positioning for the 3rd Liverpool goal, however, would be
       highly inadvisable for an official at any level.  It's a great
       clip for discussion on decision making and positioning.  That
       nothing happened here is down to sheer luck rather than by
       design.  Dean could have easily been skelped with the ball, or
       there could have been a handball decision on the Newcastle
       defender.  In the latter event he would not have been able to
       make a decision.
       >
       > His position was almost borderline blocking the Newcastle
       defender(s) ability to play the ball.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       He has also run across the line of the goalkeeper's view which
       wouldn't have endeared him to Martin Dúbravka.  He wouldn't have
       saved it anyway but it's just something else for a player to
       complain about.
       #Post#: 41356--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: Joecphillips
       Date: December 17, 2021, 7:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
       match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
       safety seriously
       #Post#: 41357--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: DublinRef
       Date: December 17, 2021, 8:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
       >
       > Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
       match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
       safety seriously
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that
       is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very
       sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until
       after the fact but it does raise questions about whether
       everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
       #Post#: 41358--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: December 17, 2021, 8:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=3176.msg41356#msg41356
       date=1639748568]
       > Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
       match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
       safety seriously
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that
       is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very
       sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until
       after the fact but it does raise questions about whether
       everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
       [/quote]
       Eddie is a lovely guy and has always been polite & respectful
       towards referees & about decisions. Very rare for him to comment
       & I'd have to say, don't ever turn into that sort of manager
       Eddie - you are better than that. He & Jas have also always been
       hot on injury & not putting players at risk. Eddie was forced to
       retire young through injury and doesn't want to see one of his
       players go through that. I would be very surprised if he or Jas
       knew at the time, it's just not them.  He should be having a
       long hard chat with the physio/member of the medical team and
       making sure they know he does not do things that way, player
       safety & wellbeing is paramount & advising them in the strongest
       terms to follow the concussion procedure in future or they are
       out.
       #Post#: 41360--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: DublinRef
       Date: December 17, 2021, 8:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=3176.msg41357#msg41357
       date=1639750522]
       > [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=3176.msg41356#msg41356
       date=1639748568]
       > Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
       match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
       safety seriously
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that
       is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very
       sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until
       after the fact but it does raise questions about whether
       everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
       [/quote]
       Eddie is a lovely guy and has always been polite & respectful
       towards referees & about decisions. Very rare for him to comment
       & I'd have to say, don't ever turn into that sort of manager
       Eddie - you are better than that. He & Jas have also always been
       hot on injury & not putting players at risk. Eddie was forced to
       retire young through injury and doesn't want to see one of his
       players go through that. I would be very surprised if he or Jas
       knew at the time, it's just not them.  He should be having a
       long hard chat with the physio/member of the medical team and
       making sure they know he does not do things that way, player
       safety & wellbeing is paramount & advising them in the strongest
       terms to follow the concussion procedure in future or they are
       out.
       [/quote]
       I recall him speaking very highly and very graciously about
       Roger East after Roger had apologised for a really poor penalty
       decision - I have always felt since then in the small bits I
       have seen of him speaking that he seems very fair minded. It
       certainly sounds from what you have said as if he wasn't aware
       during the game however if that is the case then he certainly
       should be trying to find out why the information wasn't passed
       to him and the correct procedure followed like you say bmb
       rather than using the injury as a stick to beat the referee
       with.
       #Post#: 41365--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: December 17, 2021, 9:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The problem is that even after multiple watches it isn't obvious
       that there is a head injury in there, and real time it is
       obviously even harder.  As others have said, damned if you do
       damned if you don't.
       Agree that Mike Dean's movement at the 3rd goal looks very odd.
       What I think has happened is he's seen Alexander-Arnold running
       up to the ball and assumed he would do what he normally does,
       take a touch and then curl towards far corner.  If he had done
       that then Dean was bang in the way so he's decided to go left,
       but of course he has smashed the shot to the near post which is
       why it nearly hit him.  This is the point in time I mean, he is
       going to be in the way if he goes for the far post.
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/DfWMXNQ/MikeDean.jpg
       Its cut out where TAA is, but pretty obvious to see the issue.
       #Post#: 41370--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: magpie1892
       Date: December 17, 2021, 11:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       On first viewing live id have said yes a penalty, from the
       replay it didnt look like he got much on the ball at all.
       If Salah had gone down at the Liverpool end and Dean said
       penalty, i dont think it would have been a clear and obvious
       error to override the OFO.
       #Post#: 41394--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: December 18, 2021, 7:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Leggy link ---
       >
       > A referee could be put into an impossible position here.
       >
       > If the referee is forced to stop play for everything that
       appears to be a head injury then it is a short jump to a
       situation whereby players will fake a head injury when their
       team is in peril.
       >
       > Conversely, if the referee chooses to let play continue and
       the player does have a head injury, he/she will be pilloried.
       >
       > Once again the powers that be have placed referees in a no-win
       situation.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Whilst agreeing that it's not always an easy call to make in
       real time, the directive is nothing new and I'm not sure there
       is a better one the powers that be could provide?
       #Post#: 41398--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
   DIR By: Affy_Moose
       Date: December 18, 2021, 12:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Leggy link=topic=3176.msg41343#msg41343
       date=1639723782]
       > A referee could be put into an impossible position here.
       >
       > If the referee is forced to stop play for everything that
       appears to be a head injury then it is a short jump to a
       situation whereby players will fake a head injury when their
       team is in peril.
       >
       > Conversely, if the referee chooses to let play continue and
       the player does have a head injury, he/she will be pilloried.
       >
       > Once again the powers that be have placed referees in a no-win
       situation.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Whilst agreeing that it's not always an easy call to make in
       real time, the directive is nothing new and I'm not sure there
       is a better one the powers that be could provide?
       [/quote]
       The Laws (in my mind) are suitable as written.
       Injuries
       •
       player is only slightly injured
       •
       the player is removed from the field of play.
       The player wasn’t seriously injured. It’s in a high-risk area so
       there’s no way Dean would have allowed to play on if the ball
       has been cleared. It’s just one of those edge cases that you
       cannot effectively legislate for, without inadvertently
       introducing another problem.
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