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#Post#: 41350--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: December 17, 2021, 4:29 am
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I agree with the above comments re no-win situation. If a player
collapses, play should and would be stopped immediately
nowadays. If there is an obvious clash of heads, with or without
blood, then again play should be stopped. In these two
situations, I suggest the reaction of other players makes it
obvious that there is a serious problem, in the same way as for
a potential leg break. Other than these, it should be left to
the ref to decide whether to stop play.
#Post#: 41354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: December 17, 2021, 7:05 am
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--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
> His positioning for the 3rd Liverpool goal, however, would be
highly inadvisable for an official at any level. It's a great
clip for discussion on decision making and positioning. That
nothing happened here is down to sheer luck rather than by
design. Dean could have easily been skelped with the ball, or
there could have been a handball decision on the Newcastle
defender. In the latter event he would not have been able to
make a decision.
>
> His position was almost borderline blocking the Newcastle
defender(s) ability to play the ball.
>
--- End Quote ---
He has also run across the line of the goalkeeper's view which
wouldn't have endeared him to Martin Dúbravka. He wouldn't have
saved it anyway but it's just something else for a player to
complain about.
#Post#: 41356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: December 17, 2021, 7:42 am
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Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
safety seriously
#Post#: 41357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 17, 2021, 8:15 am
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--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
safety seriously
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that
is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very
sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until
after the fact but it does raise questions about whether
everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
#Post#: 41358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: bmb
Date: December 17, 2021, 8:32 am
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--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=3176.msg41356#msg41356
date=1639748568]
> Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
safety seriously
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that
is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very
sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until
after the fact but it does raise questions about whether
everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
[/quote]
Eddie is a lovely guy and has always been polite & respectful
towards referees & about decisions. Very rare for him to comment
& I'd have to say, don't ever turn into that sort of manager
Eddie - you are better than that. He & Jas have also always been
hot on injury & not putting players at risk. Eddie was forced to
retire young through injury and doesn't want to see one of his
players go through that. I would be very surprised if he or Jas
knew at the time, it's just not them. He should be having a
long hard chat with the physio/member of the medical team and
making sure they know he does not do things that way, player
safety & wellbeing is paramount & advising them in the strongest
terms to follow the concussion procedure in future or they are
out.
#Post#: 41360--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 17, 2021, 8:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=3176.msg41357#msg41357
date=1639750522]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=3176.msg41356#msg41356
date=1639748568]
> Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the
match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player
safety seriously
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that
is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very
sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until
after the fact but it does raise questions about whether
everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
[/quote]
Eddie is a lovely guy and has always been polite & respectful
towards referees & about decisions. Very rare for him to comment
& I'd have to say, don't ever turn into that sort of manager
Eddie - you are better than that. He & Jas have also always been
hot on injury & not putting players at risk. Eddie was forced to
retire young through injury and doesn't want to see one of his
players go through that. I would be very surprised if he or Jas
knew at the time, it's just not them. He should be having a
long hard chat with the physio/member of the medical team and
making sure they know he does not do things that way, player
safety & wellbeing is paramount & advising them in the strongest
terms to follow the concussion procedure in future or they are
out.
[/quote]
I recall him speaking very highly and very graciously about
Roger East after Roger had apologised for a really poor penalty
decision - I have always felt since then in the small bits I
have seen of him speaking that he seems very fair minded. It
certainly sounds from what you have said as if he wasn't aware
during the game however if that is the case then he certainly
should be trying to find out why the information wasn't passed
to him and the correct procedure followed like you say bmb
rather than using the injury as a stick to beat the referee
with.
#Post#: 41365--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 17, 2021, 9:40 am
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The problem is that even after multiple watches it isn't obvious
that there is a head injury in there, and real time it is
obviously even harder. As others have said, damned if you do
damned if you don't.
Agree that Mike Dean's movement at the 3rd goal looks very odd.
What I think has happened is he's seen Alexander-Arnold running
up to the ball and assumed he would do what he normally does,
take a touch and then curl towards far corner. If he had done
that then Dean was bang in the way so he's decided to go left,
but of course he has smashed the shot to the near post which is
why it nearly hit him. This is the point in time I mean, he is
going to be in the way if he goes for the far post.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/DfWMXNQ/MikeDean.jpg
Its cut out where TAA is, but pretty obvious to see the issue.
#Post#: 41370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: magpie1892
Date: December 17, 2021, 11:33 am
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On first viewing live id have said yes a penalty, from the
replay it didnt look like he got much on the ball at all.
If Salah had gone down at the Liverpool end and Dean said
penalty, i dont think it would have been a clear and obvious
error to override the OFO.
#Post#: 41394--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 18, 2021, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> A referee could be put into an impossible position here.
>
> If the referee is forced to stop play for everything that
appears to be a head injury then it is a short jump to a
situation whereby players will fake a head injury when their
team is in peril.
>
> Conversely, if the referee chooses to let play continue and
the player does have a head injury, he/she will be pilloried.
>
> Once again the powers that be have placed referees in a no-win
situation.
>
--- End Quote ---
Whilst agreeing that it's not always an easy call to make in
real time, the directive is nothing new and I'm not sure there
is a better one the powers that be could provide?
#Post#: 41398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: December 18, 2021, 12:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=3176.msg41343#msg41343
date=1639723782]
> A referee could be put into an impossible position here.
>
> If the referee is forced to stop play for everything that
appears to be a head injury then it is a short jump to a
situation whereby players will fake a head injury when their
team is in peril.
>
> Conversely, if the referee chooses to let play continue and
the player does have a head injury, he/she will be pilloried.
>
> Once again the powers that be have placed referees in a no-win
situation.
>
--- End Quote ---
Whilst agreeing that it's not always an easy call to make in
real time, the directive is nothing new and I'm not sure there
is a better one the powers that be could provide?
[/quote]
The Laws (in my mind) are suitable as written.
Injuries
•
player is only slightly injured
•
the player is removed from the field of play.
The player wasn’t seriously injured. It’s in a high-risk area so
there’s no way Dean would have allowed to play on if the ball
has been cleared. It’s just one of those edge cases that you
cannot effectively legislate for, without inadvertently
introducing another problem.
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