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#Post#: 41287--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: December 16, 2021, 4:51 am
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--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> As some seem to set great store on Mr Clattenburg's opinions,
here are his views. Using Whistleblower's analogy, I would
never claim to be a Lead Counsel on behalf of MC as a referee
and therefore I personally attach no special significance to his
remarks now. Whether Messrs Gallagher and the seemingly
unpopular Hackett would agree with him I don't know.
>
>
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10314777/MARK-CLATTENBURG-Penalty-West-Ham-red-card-against-Arsenal-plain-wrong.html
>
--- End Quote ---
I have wondered for a few years what the point of My Clattenburg
is.
He thought the Mane red card against Man City in 2017 was wrong.
For that claim alone, I have very little time for his input.
Quite incredible considering the career he had.
HTML https://metro.co.uk/2017/09/09/sadio-mane-should-not-have-been-sent-off-against-manchester-city-says-mark-clattenburg-6914979/
#Post#: 41288--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: ARF
Date: December 16, 2021, 6:20 am
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It's as clear a penalty as I've seen all season - he rolls over
the top of the ball and kicks the attacker mid-to-high shin.
Unsure whether I think it's a caution or not, but I simply
cannot believe there are referees out there that disagree that
this is a foul.
#Post#: 41291--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: December 16, 2021, 6:46 am
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Proof, if proof were needed, that the least important thing in
modern football is the ball. They should just get rid of it all
together and the players will then be safe to run around.
Actually, in this super-duper digital age, could they not use a
virtual ball?
#Post#: 41293--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: December 16, 2021, 7:15 am
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--- Quote from: ARF link ---
>
> It's as clear a penalty as I've seen all season - he rolls
over the top of the ball and kicks the attacker mid-to-high
shin. Unsure whether I think it's a caution or not, but I simply
cannot believe there are referees out there that disagree that
this is a foul.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that's overstating the case somewhat... It doesn't take
any imagination to make it a foul, but I can absolutely
appreciate this splitting an audience of experienced officials.
#Post#: 41301--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: December 16, 2021, 9:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=PhiltheRef link=topic=3174.msg41279#msg41279
date=1639614597]
> but doubtless I will be given heaps and accused of defending a
mate (not that he needs defending btw)
>
--- End Quote ---
IMO, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, mate or not. I
get a few of the very boring "you're just defending your mate"
comments along with a few of "you're only slating him cos you
don't like him" ones! They're pathetic & tiresome but just do
what I do and laugh at them!
[/quote]
The unbiased observer in my view lives in the same stable as the
unicorn. Everyone of us has their views tailored by our own
make-up and life experiences. Whistleblower speaks of advocates
for the defence and prosecution and presumably they are part of
the judicial process so that more than one side of the story is
heard. We should welcome the views of those see things
differently - challenge their conclusions if we think their
evidence is weak, but be prepared to reflect on them. Always,
however, trying to follow DublinRef's intent to play the ball
and not the man.
#Post#: 41304--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 16, 2021, 10:29 am
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Dale Johnson on twitter says Anthony Taylor told Peter Bankes
he'd seen a touch on the ball but felt challenge was reckless.
Apparently this limited scope for VAR involvement as Taylor had
been accurate with description of factual element and the rest
was quite subjective. If Taylor had missed touch on the ball
then more likely VAR might have recommended a review.
#Post#: 41306--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 16, 2021, 10:34 am
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--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=3174.msg41280#msg41280
date=1639625287]
> [quote author=PhiltheRef link=topic=3174.msg41279#msg41279
date=1639614597]
> but doubtless I will be given heaps and accused of defending a
mate (not that he needs defending btw)
>
--- End Quote ---
IMO, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, mate or not. I
get a few of the very boring "you're just defending your mate"
comments along with a few of "you're only slating him cos you
don't like him" ones! They're pathetic & tiresome but just do
what I do and laugh at them!
[/quote]
The unbiased observer in my view lives in the same stable as the
unicorn. Everyone of us has their views tailored by our own
make-up and life experiences. Whistleblower speaks of advocates
for the defence and prosecution and presumably they are part of
the judicial process so that more than one side of the story is
heard. We should welcome the views of those see things
differently - challenge their conclusions if we think their
evidence is weak, but be prepared to reflect on them. Always,
however, trying to follow DublinRef's intent to play the ball
and not the man.
[/quote]
It's a very interesting question whether any of us can ever be
unbiased in our observations. I certainly believe that when I
see a new referee, as I did Benjamin Speedie last Saturday, I am
unaware of any bias but I have done enough unconscious bias
training to know that may well not be the truth. For instance, I
will have read other people's views about Speedie on RTR and
although I don't remember the specifics I think I recall clear
positivity and so I expected him to do well last Saturday. Also,
if a style puts me in mind of a favourite referee ( as Samuel
Barrott did recalling Joe Worrall ) then I am prepared to accept
that will colour my judgement.
#Post#: 41309--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 16, 2021, 10:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> Proof, if proof were needed, that the least important thing in
modern football is the ball. They should just get rid of it all
together and the players will then be safe to run around.
> Actually, in this super-duper digital age, could they not use
a virtual ball?
>
--- End Quote ---
As Peter Walton right said, and I don't always find myself
saying that, had Coufal got full contact on the ball and then
his follow through catching Lacazette he would probably have got
away with it. It's the fact he glanced off the top of the ball
and then hit Lacazette high on his leg, if he had won the ball
cleanly that wouldn't have happened. And to be fair that is
exactly what Moyes said, he criticised Coufal for not tackling
properly.
#Post#: 41315--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: badref
Date: December 16, 2021, 11:58 am
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Interesting that almost all of the opinions on this one are
either in the camp of definitely a pen or definitely not a pen
and nothing inbetween.
I'm a West Ham fan and I'm actually still really undecided on
this one. Different camera angles make me change my mind but I'm
leaning towards no pen. I suspect in real time with no VAR most
referees wouldn't give a penalty here.
I did realise though that as soon as Taylor blew for it that VAR
wouldn't (shouldn't?) be overturning it.
Does he have to book him (send him off) once he's given it do we
think?
#Post#: 41316--------------------------------------------------
Re: ATaylor - Arsenal v West Ham
DIR By: ajb95
Date: December 16, 2021, 12:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: badref link ---
>
> Interesting that almost all of the opinions on this one are
either in the camp of definitely a pen or definitely not a pen
and nothing inbetween.
>
> I'm a West Ham fan and I'm actually still really undecided on
this one. Different camera angles make me change my mind but I'm
leaning towards no pen. I suspect in real time with no VAR most
referees wouldn't give a penalty here.
>
> I did realise though that as soon as Taylor blew for it that
VAR wouldn't (shouldn't?) be overturning it.
>
> Does he have to book him (send him off) once he's given it do
we think?
>
--- End Quote ---
No
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