DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 41123--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Conkernut
Date: December 13, 2021, 4:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The AR showed absolutely no interest in it whatsoever.
Unfortunately Jon Moss has a history of guessing decisions. He
as good as admitted to doing it in a Liverpool - Spurs game
about 5 years ago
#Post#: 41127--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: December 13, 2021, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Conkernut link ---
>
>
> The AR showed absolutely no interest in it whatsoever.
Unfortunately Jon Moss has a history of guessing decisions. He
as good as admitted to doing it in a Liverpool - Spurs game
about 5 years ago
>
--- End Quote ---
With respect, none us could possibly know if the AR had any
input or not. Given the location, however, I would fully have
expected the AR to have verbal input, and it would likely have
been "handball".
ARs are instructed never to flag for penalties. Rather, they'll
provide verbal input and the referee will decide if he agrees or
not.
From the angles I have seen, that's a penalty if it touches the
arm, which is certainly appears to do. The AR would be expected
to have an input, and VAR is not going to over-rule as it's far
from a clear and obvious error.
Moss doesn't need to see it to award a penalty.
#Post#: 41128--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 13, 2021, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ivanhoe link ---
>
> Re Hackett - Yes, yes but the trouble is, if the likes of
Hackett don't highlight this sort of situation then it quickly
gets brushed under the carpet.
> If we are going to get VAR properly accepted then it has to
correct wrong decisions or it is going to continue to be
ridiculed. VAR should work well if the operators use it
correctly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fair point but the golden rule of calling witnesses to advance
one's case is always choose good and reliable witnesses.
Hackett, a vastly over-promoted referee and now a pundit with a
vastly over-inflated view of his own credibility is, in my book
at any rate, an extremely unreliable witness.
#Post#: 41129--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: December 13, 2021, 6:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=Ivanhoe link=topic=3160.msg41110#msg41110
date=1639347124]
> Re Hackett - Yes, yes but the trouble is, if the likes of
Hackett don't highlight this sort of situation then it quickly
gets brushed under the carpet.
> If we are going to get VAR properly accepted then it has to
correct wrong decisions or it is going to continue to be
ridiculed. VAR should work well if the operators use it
correctly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fair point but the golden rule of calling witnesses to advance
one's case is always choose good and reliable witnesses.
Hackett, a vastly over-promoted referee and now a pundit with a
vastly over-inflated view of his own credibility is, in my book
at any rate, an extremely unreliable witness.
[/quote]
My experiences of former officials on TV and newspapers - to
date - is that they have a very disappointing, and now
predictable, failure to keep abreast of changes to the LotG.
There have been some lamentable instances of them not only
failing to know the basic wording of Law 12, but not knowing
fairly significant new changes.
If Dale Johnson of ESPN can learn the intricacies of Law,
despite not being a referee, it's not unreasonable to expect
former top flight officials to keep a track of Law changes.
#Post#: 41131--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: December 13, 2021, 7:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Mr Moss didn't put a foot wrong - for 115 seconds, then things
went downhill. On 116 seconds it seems to me that he failed to
award a penalty to City and a Red card to Saiss for wrestling
Sterling to the ground as he was about to shoot.
[img]
HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/City%20Wolves%201_56%20Sterling%204.png?etag=%22d046b-61b71f3d%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=660%2B371&extract=0%2B0%2B542%2B371[/img]
A delightful pass from Cancello allows Sterling to play the ball
just inside the penalty area and get ahead of Saiss, Sterling
tries to stay on his feet under the challenge from behind by
Saiss and just as he is about to shoot is pushed to the ground.
To me rather more of a penalty than the clip I have seen for
United against Norwich. Perhaps it was because the red card
would have to have followed that the penalty wasn't awarded so
early in the game. It would however have had a much greater
impact on the game than the later red card and the dubious
penalty given later.
On 6 m 23 s Grealish got away from Dendoncker and was brought
down from behind - free kick awarded - could easily have been a
yellow card but seemed to me that these two decisions set a
rather high threshold for red and yellow cards - compared with
later decisions.
In the 11th minute Traore charges into Cancello, nothing given a
minute later Cancello returns the complement on Traore, again
nothing given.
Also in the 12th minute Sterling is again wrestled to the ground
right in front of the AR.
[img]
HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/City%20Wolves%2012_45%20Sterling%201.png?etag=%22128bfa-61b72e50%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=300%2B169&extract=0%2B0%2B300%2B169[/img]
[img]
HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/City%20Wolves%2012_45%20Sterling%203.png?etag=%22a1ec1-61b72e1e%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=432%2B243&extract=0%2B0%2B397%2B243[/img]
Result throw in to Wolves.
Then in the 18th minute a reasonable penalty sgout as Jesus gets
between the defender and the ball and is kicked on the leg for
his troubles. I have mixed feelings about this one: Jesus has
put himself in a position to attract the foul. However these
are regularly given - the award to Salah seems the same sort of
situation, Mt Oliver gave two penalties to Leicester last season
where Vardy did the same, Calcello received a red card when
Wellbeck did much the same against Brighton last season and so
on. Shortly after Cancello fouls Traore and should probably be a
yellow card - nothing given.
Diaz then makes a similar challenge on Traore as the one on
Sterling earlier, wrestling him to the ground and receives a
yellow card - in isolation this is an OK decision but in the
context of previous decisions it is pretty inconsistant. The
inconsistency continues when Rodri makes a similar challenge to
the earlier one on Grealish and receives a yellow card. So when
Jiménez tries to pull back Rodri by the arm and then tries to
trip him a yellow card follows and as he tries to block the free
kick the inevitable second yellow is given. It certainly seemed
to me that the criteria for yellow cards had changed from his
earlier decisions.
And so it went on, and we have a handball against Jesus where so
far as I can tell the ball is nowhere near his arm but hits the
chest and shoulder.
[img]
HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/City%20Wolves%2044_50%20%20Jesus%20Handball%203.png?etag=%22216478-61b72ea5%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=300%2B169&extract=0%2B0%2B300%2B169[/img]
Finally in the 7th minute of added time to the first half City
have another, to me credible, penalty claim. When a Grealish
cross, which had a good chance of reaching Sterling or Bernado
on the edge of the six yard box. is blocked by the arm of Kilman
and deflected back to the keeper. Kilman's arm is reasonably at
his side but he does move himself (including his arm) about a
yard into the path of the ball and it hits him between the elbow
and the bottom of his sleeve, he appears to pull his arm behind
his back after the ball has hit it. So in my view this should
have been a penalty although I don't think the one in the second
half actually hit the arm but deflected downwards from the chest
and armpit.
[img]
HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/City%20Wolves%2052_56%20Handball%205.png?etag=%2211c4ef-61b72ef8%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=300%2B169&extract=0%2B0%2B300%2B169[/img]
[img]
HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/City%20Wolves%2052_56%20Handball%207.png?etag=W%2F%221459ac-61b72f1e%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=300%2B169&extract=0%2B0%2B300%2B169[/img]
The second half continued in the same vein of inconsistency but
I think there is enough here to say both on the balance of play
and on the balance of refereeing decisions City were not
particularly fortunate to achieve a win.
#Post#: 41142--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 13, 2021, 10:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Jon Moss would make a very worthy contribution to L1 and L2
football and at a pinch, acquit himself reasonably in the SG2
Group; certainly better than some of that number which I do
realise is damning with faint praise. What he is doing in the
SG1 and regularly receiving top of the table matches has always
been one of football refereeing's more impenetrable mysteries to
me.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 3
DIR Previous Page