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#Post#: 41047--------------------------------------------------
J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: December 11, 2021, 8:58 am
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Haven’t seen any highlights but Wolves very upset by the penalty
decision?
#Post#: 41048--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Critics
Date: December 11, 2021, 10:05 am
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The defender's arm raised beyond his shoulder level and the ball
was blocked by the near part so in real-time it really looked
like a handball. But replay showed that the ball probably hit
his chest first and deflected to the raised arm. His arm was in
an unnatural position and made himself bigger so the penalty
decision initially by Moss IMO was supportable and VAR should
not intervene.
#Post#: 41049--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: December 11, 2021, 10:08 am
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In my view this was an apology for a game of football and no
team could take much credit from it - City were lacked
imagination, Wolves were pretty abysmal and the referee and VAR
were awful.
As I saw it a lot of fouls were ignored in the opening stages of
the game, three possible penalties - I thought he got them all
wrong, four "handballs" one probably correct and three probably
wrong.
After the opening period of ignoring fouls he decided to start
throwing yellow cards around - possibly feeling that he was
losing control which it seemed to me he was - the first yellow
card - in isolation - could be justified although in the context
of the decisions he had made up to that point seemed harsh. The
next yellow card for Rodri really shouldn't have been and set a
very low threshold for yellow cards which meant a short while
later a similar challenge on Rodri and Jimenez sees yellow
(neither should have been yellow in my view) Jimenez foolishly
refuses to retreat and moves to block the free kick and gets a
second yellow - idiotic from Jiminez though his first yellow
shouldn't have been.
Handballs - first one against Jesus looked a little harsh but
not absolutely incorrect, the second one on replay looked to hit
Jesus on the chest/shoulder rather than the arm and I would say
was incorrect. The third one Grealish crosses, Wolves defender
leans across to block the ball which hits his arm between the
elbow and the bottom of his sleeve. Arm not far away from his
side but clear movement towards the ball - should be a penalty
for me - particularly in the light of the previous handball
against Jesus- not given should have been a penalty. Fourth
handball Moutinho raises an arm to block a cross the ball hits
him on the chest / arm pit - didn't see any clear evidence that
it had hit his raised arm first - in my view no penalty.
So one of the worst games I've watched for a while and Mr Moss
has to take some (but not all) of the responsibility for that.
Maybe I'll look at some of the incidents again on City + TV
tomorrow and change my mind on some of the decisions but that's
how I see them at the moment.
#Post#: 41050--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: guest320
Date: December 11, 2021, 10:39 am
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I was under the impression the current guideline state that if
the ball deflects off another part of a players body and then
onto the arm then that will not constitute a penalty. In which
case VAR would have clear evidence to overturn the decision as
the ball clearly hits his midriff/armpit first before deflecting
onto the arm.
Good and bad from Moss with the red card too. Great to see a
referee finally book a player for stopping a free kick being
taken quickly... but the first yellow 40 seconds before was one
of the poorest decisions to issue a yellow you will ever see,
and certainly seemed to be influenced into booking Jimenez by
the Man City crowd/players because he had just booked a couple
of city players in the few minutes before.
#Post#: 41051--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 11, 2021, 11:09 am
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--- Quote from: chriswfc link ---
>
> I was under the impression the current guideline state that if
the ball deflects off another part of a players body and then
onto the arm then that will not constitute a penalty. In which
case VAR would have clear evidence to overturn the decision as
the ball clearly hits his midriff/armpit first before deflecting
onto the arm.
>
--- End Quote ---
Changed this year. Up until last season it said ...
[i]Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the
ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including
the foot)[/I]
That's gone this season, but wouldn't have been relevant last
season. That's because above that bullet point are the words "
Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball
touches a player’s hand/arm", and one of the above offences
listed is if the hand or arm is above the shoulder level unless
the player deliberately played the ball before it hit the arm.
Would be a big push to say there was a deliberate play here.
This season the handball law just says ...
[i]It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for
example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made
their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have
made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their
hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the
player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having
their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of
their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised[/I]
There was no reason for his arm to be up there, so as the law
says, he took a risk and got penalised. I don't think the video
was conclusive as to whether it hit his arm below the t-shirt
line, but given this I don't really see how VAR could do
anything other than stick with the onfield decision.
#Post#: 41055--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: ajb95
Date: December 11, 2021, 1:59 pm
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Penalty right or wrong, I cannot for the life of me see how Moss
has given that from his position. He is totally in the wrong
place. he's too far left and deep in play. Would have been more
of a decision for the linesman.
Intersting that this is the referee and VAR combination who
refereed the City v Southampton match in September and decided
that Walker had not fouled Redmond after initially giving a
penalty
#Post#: 41056--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: December 11, 2021, 2:08 pm
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The number of penalties given in the PL so far this weekend
seems very high….
#Post#: 41060--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 11, 2021, 2:45 pm
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--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> Penalty right or wrong, I cannot for the life of me see how
Moss has given that from his position. He is totally in the
wrong place. he's too far left and deep in play. Would have been
more of a decision for the linesman.
>
> Intersting that this is the referee and VAR combination who
refereed the City v Southampton match in September and decided
that Walker had not fouled Redmond after initially giving a
penalty
>
--- End Quote ---
Is it possible assistant contributed to penalty decision?
Wasn't Atkinson VAR for Man City V Southampton match and
Marriner VAR today?
#Post#: 41063--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: December 11, 2021, 4:16 pm
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Quoting Microscopist.
Fourth handball Moutinho raises an arm to block a cross the ball
hits him on the chest / arm pit - didn't see any clear evidence
that it had hit his raised arm first - in my view no penalty.
It certainly looked to me that the ball initially went under the
arm into the armpit/chest. Was there clear evidence it then hit
the raised arm as I didn't spot it? One of the commentators
thought VAR might ask the referee to check the monitor. In that
particular situation it seemed to me more likely that Moutinho
was trying to get his arm out of the way, given the height and
direction of the ball, than deliberately making his body bigger.
#Post#: 41064--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - Man City v Wolves
DIR By: ajb95
Date: December 11, 2021, 4:17 pm
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It was a poor decision either way
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