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#Post#: 40753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: December 5, 2021, 11:38 am
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--- Quote from: Comeonref link ---
>
> Another bottled decision by Oliver. There is absolutely no way
he had full control of that ball
>
--- End Quote ---
You could argue the case pre-VAR, however, this is exactly the
sort of factual decision that they are trying to achieve by
using VAR ----like it like it not and most know my opinion of
VAR!
#Post#: 40754--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 5, 2021, 11:40 am
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I’ve seen some people arguing that this part of the law changes
things -
“except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the
goalkeeper has made a save”
Would anyone in the know be able to offer an explanation of when
this exception is applied?
#Post#: 40755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: nemesis
Date: December 5, 2021, 11:46 am
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--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> I’ve seen some people arguing that this part of the law
changes things -
>
> “except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the
goalkeeper has made a save”
>
> Would anyone in the know be able to offer an explanation of
when this exception is applied?
>
--- End Quote ---
.......also whether the exception phrase applies to both of the
situations either side of the "or" or just the latter one.
#Post#: 40756--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: December 5, 2021, 11:58 am
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--- Quote from: dave26 link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=3137.msg40745#msg40745
date=1638725240]
> 100% should be disallowed under current laws, quoted below ...
>
> [i]A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball
with the hand(s) when:
>
> • the ball is between the hands or between the hand and
any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any
part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the
goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
>
> • holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
>
> • bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air
>
> A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in
control of the ball with the hand(s)
>
--- End Quote ---
Second paragraph states except if the ball rebounds from the
goalkeeper or if the goalkeeper makes a save which he did
[/quote]
The second element does not apply. It would apply if the
goalkeeper saved the ball (trapped on the ground) and it was
then released.
That is to distinguish between that situation and others (such
as the action of throwing the ball to kick it, where despite the
goalkeeper not touching it, he is deemed by the Law to still
have ‘control’).
You cannot kick the ball out of the goalkeeper’s control in the
moment of the save.
The second element is not for this situation, though I
appreciate the wording is awkward.
#Post#: 40758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 5, 2021, 12:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That is correct. It is another law that is not written very
well, but the bottom line is if you have the ball between the
ground and one hand it is deemed to be under control and
therefore it has to be a foul. It used to be two hands for
there to be control, but that hasn't been the case for a long,
long time now.
#Post#: 40760--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 5, 2021, 12:34 pm
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Thanks Affy_Moose and rustyref for the clarification. I agree
with you both, the law could be worded more clearly but what
does now seem clear and beyond doubt is that Michael Oliver and
VAR Paul Tierney were 100% correct.
#Post#: 40771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: Claretman
Date: December 5, 2021, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Watching the game from the stands today Mr Oliver seemed to be
very lenient in his game management resulting
In very few yellow cards being issued. Not a criticism but just
an observation.
As for the ruled out goal, me being quite some distance away,
nearer the other goal and given the fact the incident happened
quickly, it was Difficult to tell initially why the goal had
been ruled out.
Schmeicheal was on the ground in some apparent pain, but in
todays game it is often difficult to tell if the pain is actual
pain or pain resulting from making a mistake. I hate it when
players stay on the ground enticing teams to
Kick the ball out of play or get the referee to stop the game
and then get up rather quickly after the game has
Been stopped.
I guess villa will be in trouble as a replay of the incident was
played on the big screen just after var intervened
Thus resulting in villa players questioning the referee as to
why he had made his decision, another charge for surrounding the
referee to follow after the palace game last week ?
Mr Oliver and Mr Schmeicheal were not the two most favourite
people on the field of play from then on with the majority of
the crowd.
After a few hours drive home, collecting my thoughts, Watching a
replay and checking the laws of the game,
I have to say Mr Tierney was right in asking Mr Oliver to have
another look, and they came to the right decision.
I would defend Mr Oliver for not giving the free kick immy as it
was difficult to tell what happened in real time, plus he had
the get out jail card, ie var.
Not The best display today from Mr Oliver today in my opinion
but definitely not his worst either.
#Post#: 40772--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: RefObserver
Date: December 6, 2021, 2:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=Comeonref link=topic=3137.msg40748#msg40748
date=1638725557]
> Another bottled decision by Oliver. There is absolutely no way
he had full control of that ball
>
--- End Quote ---
We expect better on this forum. This is a fan opinion not based
on Law.
We can debate the veracity or sense of Law, but not its
application when it’s a question of fact. There are subjective
Laws, but this isn’t one of them.
It was correctly disallowed.
[/quote]
Affy - I couldn't agree more with your post.
This was an ill thought out comment and the phrase "bottled
decision" has no place on this forum.
It is actually a ridiculous notion anyway, given that the much
braver decision was to recognise the error and disallow the
goal. Bottling it would suggest not having the courage to apply
law correctly and allow the goal........
#Post#: 40778--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: December 6, 2021, 4:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> Watching the game from the stands today Mr Oliver seemed to be
very lenient in his game management resulting
> In very few yellow cards being issued. Not a criticism but
just an observation.
>
> Not The best display today from Mr Oliver today in my opinion
but definitely not his worst either.
>
--- End Quote ---
Having watched the game on Sky, I was surprised to see the stats
showing 8 fouls by Villa but 25 by Leicester. I can't say I was
conscious of that many by the away team but you'd probably
expect at least 1 player to be a candidate for PI on that count.
Perhaps it was a little bit feisty at times but the only bad
foul I recall was the cynical trip by Maddison near the end for
which he was rightly cautioned.
Yes, Oliver was surrounded by Villa players when he disallowed
the goal after an OFR but my impression was it dissipated fairly
quickly. Either MO is very persuasive or maybe his geordie
accent confused them?? There was a bit of chat with 2 of the
players as they walked off at half time but nothing untoward.
At least he's a referee prepared to talk to players and explain
decisions.
#Post#: 40781--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
DIR By: Claretman
Date: December 6, 2021, 4:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=3137.msg40771#msg40771
date=1638747649]
> Watching the game from the stands today Mr Oliver seemed to be
very lenient in his game management resulting
> In very few yellow cards being issued. Not a criticism but
just an observation.
>
> Not The best display today from Mr Oliver today in my opinion
but definitely not his worst either.
>
--- End Quote ---
Having watched the game on Sky, I was surprised to see the stats
showing 8 fouls by Villa but 25 by Leicester. I can't say I was
conscious of that many by the away team but you'd probably
expect at least 1 player to be a candidate for PI on that count.
Perhaps it was a little bit feisty at times but the only bad
foul I recall was the cynical trip by Maddison near the end for
which he was rightly cautioned.
Yes, Oliver was surrounded by Villa players when he disallowed
the goal after an OFR but my impression was it dissipated fairly
quickly. Either MO is very persuasive or maybe his geordie
accent confused them?? There was a bit of chat with 2 of the
players as they walked off at half time but nothing untoward.
At least he's a referee prepared to talk to players and explain
decisions.
[/quote]
Have to agree about Oliver talking to players and explaining
decisions, he is usually calm when doing so and has gained
respect of the players. I would imagine that many of the
players, and the majority in the crowd werent aware of the
current laws. I have to admit i had to think hard and double
check, i am of an age where two hands were needed to have
control of the ball but was aware the laws had changed.
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