URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       RateTheRef
  HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Club chat
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 39574--------------------------------------------------
       Manchester United v Manchester City Statistics
       By: Microscopist Date: November 8, 2021, 1:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Found this on a City fan site, the statistics come from
       whoscored.com though I haven't found the actual page.
       [quote]"Oddly though, by 70 minutes the foul count was 20
       tackles with 2 fouls to  United, we had 26 tackles and 12 fouls.
       So 1 in every 10 United fouls in the first 70 minutes was a
       foul, whilst nearly 1 in 2 for us."
       Fouls first 70 minutes:[/quote]
       [img]
  HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/1636318317692.png?etag=W%2F%222478d-61891291%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=800%2B527[/img]
       [quote]After 70 minutes, United had 18 tackles and gave away 7
       fouls, so up to nearly 1 in 2, whilst we attempted just 2
       tackles and no fouls.
       Fouls (after 70 minutes):[/quote]
       [img]
  HTML https://dail.me.uk/____impro/1/onewebmedia/1636318520093.png?etag=%2222b80-6189126b%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fpng&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=800%2B527[/img]
       [quote]
       So we end up with United at 38 tackles with 9 fouls so around 1
       in 4. We ended up at 28 tackles and 12 fouls, so just under 1 in
       2. So we were still punished twice as often, but up to 70
       minutes we were punished 5 times as often. Plus we didn't get
       the pen and Ronaldo should have been sent off.[/quote]
       I've missed out a couple of bits that would not be allowed on
       here and edited slightly.  Would also add that City received two
       yellow cards in the first hour, United's only yellow (which
       could well have been red in my view) came around the 90th
       minute.
       edit - for some reason the images didn't show up though they
       were there in preview.
       #Post#: 39575--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Manchester United v Manchester City Statistics
       By: Ref Fan Date: November 8, 2021, 2:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Other than having a possible go at Oliver, I'm not sure what
       your point is Microscopist.  The overall foul count per the BBC
       was 12 fouls against City and 9 against United.  Can I suggest
       that the reason United conceded fewer fouls was because your
       team was so superior, my team couldn't get near enough to
       tackle, and when we did it was powder puff attempts most of the
       time to take the ball off you. Perhaps you heard Roy Keane
       afterwards complaining it was a derby and United got only 1 YC.
       That was nothing to do with Oliver being generous, he was
       emphasising how feeble United were.
       I do agree that Ronaldo's challenge out of frustration at the
       end was probably of the 'orange' hue but overall I thought
       Oliver judged the temperature of the game very well after a more
       controversial performance in Europe midweek. The 2 City YC's
       were justified in my opinion and, like Keane, my complaint was
       United didn't get stuck in enough to warrant a YC. Even the
       daily mail gave Oliver 8/10 which was twice as high a mark as
       many of the United players.
       The possible penalty to City wasn't dwelt upon, so whether there
       was enough contact for a penalty or the defender got a slight
       nick on the ball first, I've no idea.  If I was a City fan, my
       only complaint wouldn't be about the referee but they didn't
       score as many as Liverpool 2 weeks previously.  Our defending
       was laughable especially for the second goal, and after several
       fine saves, de Gea contributed to it.
       
       #Post#: 39583--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Manchester United v Manchester City Statistics
       By: Affy_Moose Date: November 8, 2021, 5:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The problem with this type of analysis is the same as the
       predictable complaints on the pitch “but it was my first foul
       ref”.
       The number of fouls may imply a type of game, but it gives zero
       indication of the nature or seriousness of any of the fouls.
       It’s perfectly plausible for 5 players to make one foul each,
       and each be cautioned, whilst another player commits 5 offences
       and isn’t cautioned once.
       #Post#: 39586--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Manchester United v Manchester City Statistics
       By: Ref Fan Date: November 8, 2021, 6:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Perhaps I'm misreading the purpose of the original post, but it
       seemed to me by quoting stats reported on a City fans web site,
       it was implying, not very subtly, that the referee was perceived
       as not even-handed in his decisions.  That to me makes it worthy
       of general discussion rather than confined to 'stats' alone.
       For what it's worth, getting back to decisions, if I heard
       Dermot and the 2 pundits correctly on refwatch just now, all 3
       agreed a YC was correct for the Ronaldo challenge, and that the
       City appeal for a penalty was a good tackle.  (Something of a
       novelty for United I might add).
       #Post#: 39587--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Manchester United v Manchester City Statistics
       By: Ref Fan Date: November 8, 2021, 7:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As with most fans' sites, they don't always show objectivity.
       The last quote demonstrates this.  "Plus we didn't get the pen
       and Ronaldo should have been sent off".  Opinion dressed up as
       fact.  I'm really not sure what you are trying to get across
       Microscopist, and as I mentioned they didn't seem to have a
       problem with the non-penalty and YC on RefWatch.
       Are you simply showing how stats in themselves can be
       misleading, or, as it came across to me, casting aspersions on
       Oliver's judgement and even-handedness.  Frankly, I would have
       thought City fans would have been more interested in celebrating
       United's embarrassment after City had thrashed their opponents
       than trying to prove the referee was unfair.
       #Post#: 39606--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Manchester United v Manchester City Statistics
       By: Boz Date: November 8, 2021, 4:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Had some technology issues so missed the first City goal and 2
       of the 3 YCs. First impression was Cancelo was standing his
       ground and Greenwood ran into him, so maybe a bit unlucky to
       pick up a booking for that. In general thought Mr Oliver was
       fine.
       *****************************************************