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#Post#: 39427--------------------------------------------------
FIFA referees travel
DIR By: bmb
Date: November 3, 2021, 4:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
We've had a few comments on here about the ridiculous situation
with FIFA referees doing midweek games in Europe followed by
domestic games on the weekend and concerns raised regarding
their health and well being, mainly in relation to Anthony
Taylor and Michael Oliver as they are the 2 top referees in
England.
I sat last night and worked out István Kovács schedule for the
past 5 weeks 28th September to last night. 5 weeks/35 days. I'm
pretty sure all the elite referees will have a pretty similar
schedule & I have to say I am horrified!
28 Sep - Shakhtar Donetsk: 11hr 40 min flight x 2 (no direct
flights) plus driving to the airport & from the airport to the
hotel/ground - 1500km each way
1 Oct - CS Mioveni: 2 hours drive each way - 110km each way
11 Oct - Norway - 5hr 20 min flight time plus driving to the
airport & from the airport to the hotel/ground x2 - 2,286km each
way.
16 Oct - Sepsi OSK: 5hrs drive each way - 300km each way
19 Oct - Club Brugge: flight + train 4hrs 35min - flight + drive
would be longer each way x2 - 2000km each way
24 Oct - Al-Nassr Riad: flight 9hrs 50min plus driving to the
airport & from the airport to the hotel/ground x2 - 4700km each
way
29 Oct - FC Botosani: 6 hrs drive each way - 380km each way
2 Nov - Sevilla FC: 5hr 55 min flight plus driving to the
airport & from the airport to the hotel/ground x2 - 3500km each
way
That equates to a minimum of 101 hours and 40 mins of travel not
including time to travel to and from the airports or waiting
times at the airports for the flights and any connecting
flights. Minimum - 4 days 5 hours and 40 mins just travelling...
A minimum of approx 29,552km travelled, not including the
distance from his home to the airport or the airport to the
hotel and ground. If you average it out it's equivalent to
driving 844km/524 miles per day.
Go back an extra 5 days
23 Sep - Craiova: 5hrs 45 mins drive each way - 400km approx
each way depending on route taken so his prior 40 day total is
113 hours and 10 mins minimum travelling time and 30,352km
minimum travelled.
They are unsafe figures for anyone's health and well being. He
is also a VAR instructor in Romania, along with Hategan and has
been doing the VAR training seminars for all of the other
referees in his "spare" time.
When are FIFA/UEFA/Country FA's going to realise how unsafe this
is? His game finished at about 9.52pm UK time last night, they
leave the ground around 45mins later, then have the debrief with
the observer and a meal - that takes around 2 hours so easily
00.30-01.00 before they can even think of getting some sleep &
he was at the airport at 04.30 for his return flight - 3 hours
rest period, minus travel time to the airport. Similar to
Kavanagh a few weeks ago having to drive from Stockley Park to
Manchester after a night game VAR stint for a 5.50am flight to
wherever it was. When are these guys meant to sleep? They must
be absolutely shattered and all running on fumes. What will it
take - one of them collapsing from exhaustion? They must
struggle to concentrate in games. I dread to think of the
consequences of one of them falling asleep at the wheel, maybe
dramatic but with the levels of exhaustion they must be feeling
it's a very real danger. The Ivory Towers need to start looking
after these guys better [emoji35]
#Post#: 39453--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: bmb
Date: November 4, 2021, 1:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
He has a game in Târgoviște tomorrow. Just a mere 1000km
round trip and 14 hours travel! [emoji57]
#Post#: 39454--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: November 4, 2021, 1:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> We've had a few comments on here about the ridiculous
situation with FIFA referees doing midweek games in Europe
followed by domestic games on the weekend and concerns raised
regarding their health and well being, mainly in relation to
Anthony Taylor and Michael Oliver as they are the 2 top referees
in England.
>
> I sat last night and worked out István Kovács schedule for the
past 5 weeks 28th September to last night. 5 weeks/35 days. I'm
pretty sure all the elite referees will have a pretty similar
schedule & I have to say I am horrified!
>
> 28 Sep - Shakhtar Donetsk: 11hr 40 min flight x 2 (no direct
flights) plus driving to the airport & from the airport to the
hotel/ground - 1500km each way
> 1 Oct - CS Mioveni: 2 hours drive each way - 110km each way
> 11 Oct - Norway - 5hr 20 min flight time plus driving to the
airport & from the airport to the hotel/ground x2 - 2,286km each
way.
> 16 Oct - Sepsi OSK: 5hrs drive each way - 300km each way
> 19 Oct - Club Brugge: flight + train 4hrs 35min - flight +
drive would be longer each way x2 - 2000km each way
> 24 Oct - Al-Nassr Riad: flight 9hrs 50min plus driving to the
airport & from the airport to the hotel/ground x2 - 4700km each
way
> 29 Oct - FC Botosani: 6 hrs drive each way - 380km each way
> 2 Nov - Sevilla FC: 5hr 55 min flight plus driving to the
airport & from the airport to the hotel/ground x2 - 3500km each
way
>
> That equates to a minimum of 101 hours and 40 mins of travel
not including time to travel to and from the airports or waiting
times at the airports for the flights and any connecting
flights. Minimum - 4 days 5 hours and 40 mins just travelling...
A minimum of approx 29,552km travelled, not including the
distance from his home to the airport or the airport to the
hotel and ground. If you average it out it's equivalent to
driving 844km/524 miles per day.
>
> Go back an extra 5 days
>
> 23 Sep - Craiova: 5hrs 45 mins drive each way - 400km approx
each way depending on route taken so his prior 40 day total is
113 hours and 10 mins minimum travelling time and 30,352km
minimum travelled.
>
>
> They are unsafe figures for anyone's health and well being.
He is also a VAR instructor in Romania, along with Hategan and
has been doing the VAR training seminars for all of the other
referees in his "spare" time.
>
> When are FIFA/UEFA/Country FA's going to realise how unsafe
this is? His game finished at about 9.52pm UK time last night,
they leave the ground around 45mins later, then have the debrief
with the observer and a meal - that takes around 2 hours so
easily 00.30-01.00 before they can even think of getting some
sleep & he was at the airport at 04.30 for his return flight - 3
hours rest period, minus travel time to the airport. Similar to
Kavanagh a few weeks ago having to drive from Stockley Park to
Manchester after a night game VAR stint for a 5.50am flight to
wherever it was. When are these guys meant to sleep? They must
be absolutely shattered and all running on fumes. What will it
take - one of them collapsing from exhaustion? They must
struggle to concentrate in games. I dread to think of the
consequences of one of them falling asleep at the wheel, maybe
dramatic but with the levels of exhaustion they must be feeling
it's a very real danger. The Ivory Towers need to start looking
after these guys better [emoji35]
>
--- End Quote ---
Presumably top level players, as well as
coaches/commentators/journalists etc will have a similar
schedule?
#Post#: 39456--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: Bakis
Date: November 4, 2021, 2:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but players and coaches will have a proportion of home
games requiring little travel, and are unlikely to have to drive
themselves.
#Post#: 39457--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: bmb
Date: November 4, 2021, 2:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Presumably top level players, as well as
coaches/commentators/journalists etc will have a similar
schedule?
>
--- End Quote ---
Players & coaches travel first class and get driven everywhere,
they certainly don't drive themselves for 6 hours to reach a
game and another 6 hours back home. Nice comfy luxury coach for
them if a flight is not available. They stay at top hotels,
referees are in budget ones. They also don't go on the first am
flight available the morning after the match & get the chance to
have some sleep before being driven to the airport, and I doubt
they have to sit around in a public place for an hour or 2
waiting for their flight. There's a huge difference in the
comfort, no driving themselves and more opportunities for sleep.
Half of their games are also home games.
Commentators aren't always at grounds - particularly since
covid. They will film in a local studio using a feed from the
game provided to journalists/media worldwide via the local media
company doing the filming. I've done commentary for Hungarian
media sat at my computer at home with access to footage provided
by a local (to where the game is) media outlet that is not
available publicly. There is a link provided to recognised media
outlets. Same with journalists - they often use the footage
available to media outlets to do their reports and don't
actually attend games. A lot of the bigger companies have
freelance journalists abroad that they use for foreign based
games. When Hungary played England at Wembley, there were 4
journalists from Hungary there - 3 based in England, only 1 from
Hungary, who is married to an English lady & combined the visit
with a trip to the in laws, the reports were sent in digitally
to all the media outlets based there. He was also the only
Hungarian journalist at the last world cup. When Fradi played
Celtic, 1 UK based journalist attended & provided the reports
for all outlets, the commentary team were in a studio in
Budapest. That's standard practice. They certainly don't travel
several thousand miles/week to various grounds twice/week to
cover games.
I'm covering the Fradi game tonight for 4 different outlets -
I'm sat at home in my pjs on my PC using the M4 footage. Tom is
covering for 6 outlets - he's at home up North somewhere again
using the M4 footage.
#Post#: 39459--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: ajb95
Date: November 4, 2021, 2:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=3017.msg39454#msg39454
date=1636050833]
> Presumably top level players, as well as
coaches/commentators/journalists etc will have a similar
schedule?
>
--- End Quote ---
Players & coaches travel first class and get driven everywhere,
they certainly don't drive themselves for 6 hours to reach a
game and another 6 hours back home. Nice comfy luxury coach for
them if a flight is not available. They stay at top hotels,
referees are in budget ones. They also don't go on the first am
flight available the morning after the match & get the chance to
have some sleep before being driven to the airport, and I doubt
they have to sit around in a public place for an hour or 2
waiting for their flight. There's a huge difference in the
comfort, no driving themselves and more opportunities for sleep.
Half of their games are also home games.
Commentators aren't always at grounds - particularly since
covid. They will film in a local studio using a feed from the
game provided to journalists/media worldwide via the local media
company doing the filming. I've done commentary for Hungarian
media sat at my computer at home with access to footage provided
by a local (to where the game is) media outlet that is not
available publicly. There is a link provided to recognised media
outlets. Same with journalists - they often use the footage
available to media outlets to do their reports and don't
actually attend games. A lot of the bigger companies have
freelance journalists abroad that they use for foreign based
games. When Hungary played England at Wembley, there were 4
journalists from Hungary there - 3 based in England, only 1 from
Hungary, who is married to an English lady & combined the visit
with a trip to the in laws, the reports were sent in digitally
to all the media outlets based there. He was also the only
Hungarian journalist at the last world cup. When Fradi played
Celtic, 1 UK based journalist attended & provided the reports
for all outlets, the commentary team were in a studio in
Budapest. That's standard practice. They certainly don't travel
several thousand miles/week to various grounds twice/week to
cover games.
I'm covering the Fradi game tonight for 4 different outlets -
I'm sat at home in my pjs on my PC using the M4 footage. Tom is
covering for 6 outlets - he's at home up North somewhere again
using the M4 footage.
[/quote]
Do match officials not get taken to the games from their hotel,
paid for by UEFA/FIFA? I thought that was the case.
Whilst I do sympathise considering the short gap between games
and the travelling, lets not forget that these elite referees
are getting paid thousands in match fees and expenses, and they
are not labouring around a building site, or going down pits, or
working long hours in the NHS or social care. Perspective please
#Post#: 39462--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: bmb
Date: November 4, 2021, 3:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
>
> Do match officials not get taken to the games from their
hotel, paid for by UEFA/FIFA? I thought that was the case.
>
> Whilst I do sympathise considering the short gap between games
and the travelling, lets not forget that these elite referees
are getting paid thousands in match fees and expenses, and they
are not labouring around a building site, or going down pits, or
working long hours in the NHS or social care. Perspective please
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes they go in a people carrier provided by the local country
federation between the destination airport & hotel & the hotel &
the ground on UEFA/FIFA games.
No amount of money makes it acceptable for them to be regularly
going a day without sleep and travelling the average of
6000km/week. Even professional drivers don't travel anywhere
near that distance in the same time span - there's laws to
protect them & rightly so. Nor does it change the fact that when
he finally arrived back at the airport in Romania yesterday he'd
been up for 26+ hours and then had to drive home. That is unsafe
however you look at it. As much as they earn it still works out
in them earning less in a week for the FIFA guys that most top
players earn in an hour.
Yes there are several jobs, with long hours, and often unsafe
working conditions for a lot less money. That does not make it
right.
#Post#: 39463--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: November 4, 2021, 4:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=3017.msg39454#msg39454
date=1636050833]
> Presumably top level players, as well as
coaches/commentators/journalists etc will have a similar
schedule?
>
--- End Quote ---
Players & coaches travel first class and get driven everywhere,
they certainly don't drive themselves for 6 hours to reach a
game and another 6 hours back home. Nice comfy luxury coach for
them if a flight is not available. They stay at top hotels,
referees are in budget ones. They also don't go on the first am
flight available the morning after the match & get the chance to
have some sleep before being driven to the airport, and I doubt
they have to sit around in a public place for an hour or 2
waiting for their flight. There's a huge difference in the
comfort, no driving themselves and more opportunities for sleep.
Half of their games are also home games.
Commentators aren't always at grounds - particularly since
covid. They will film in a local studio using a feed from the
game provided to journalists/media worldwide via the local media
company doing the filming. I've done commentary for Hungarian
media sat at my computer at home with access to footage provided
by a local (to where the game is) media outlet that is not
available publicly. There is a link provided to recognised media
outlets. Same with journalists - they often use the footage
available to media outlets to do their reports and don't
actually attend games. A lot of the bigger companies have
freelance journalists abroad that they use for foreign based
games. When Hungary played England at Wembley, there were 4
journalists from Hungary there - 3 based in England, only 1 from
Hungary, who is married to an English lady & combined the visit
with a trip to the in laws, the reports were sent in digitally
to all the media outlets based there. He was also the only
Hungarian journalist at the last world cup. When Fradi played
Celtic, 1 UK based journalist attended & provided the reports
for all outlets, the commentary team were in a studio in
Budapest. That's standard practice. They certainly don't travel
several thousand miles/week to various grounds twice/week to
cover games.
I'm covering the Fradi game tonight for 4 different outlets -
I'm sat at home in my pjs on my PC using the M4 footage. Tom is
covering for 6 outlets - he's at home up North somewhere again
using the M4 footage.
[/quote]
I agree that it is not sensible to have someone driving
themselves if they have not slept for so long. I don't know what
exactly the reality of the logistics for a FIFA referee is but
taking steps to help ensure sufficient opportunity for sleep and
avoiding excessive driving would seem appropriate and desirable,
to help support a referee's well-being, mitigate risk factors
and also help optimise performance level.
I'm aware that some commentaries are done off-tube but there are
many who will travel to numerous games, especially in non-Covid
times. Since the last international breaks, the schedule for BT
Sport's lead commentator Darren Fletcher has been - Sat 16th
October Watford V Liverpool, Tues 19th October Atletico Madrid V
Liverpool, Wed 20th October Man Utd V Atalanta, Sat 23rd October
Chelsea V Norwich, Sat 30th October Leicester V Arsenal, Tues
2nd November Atalanta V Man Utd, Wed 3rd November Liverpool V
Atletico Madrid. I believe all of these games have been
commentated on from the stadium. He also presents on 5 Live
every Friday. Many of his peers in broadcast and print
journalism will have similar schedules. You can't really use the
examples of people who don't do that, otherwise someone could
say 'never mind Michael Oliver, how many games abroad has Tony
Harrington done this season?'
Overall, I think the authorities do have a responsibility to
consider the wellbeing of referees and various actions could
help, if they are not currently implemented. But I think the
schedule of a few games most weeks is just a reality for many
people involved in elite football.
#Post#: 39468--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: flipmode
Date: November 4, 2021, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> Do match officials not get taken to the games from their
hotel, paid for by UEFA/FIFA? I thought that was the case.
>
> Whilst I do sympathise considering the short gap between games
and the travelling, lets not forget that these elite referees
are getting paid thousands in match fees and expenses, and they
are not labouring around a building site, or going down pits, or
working long hours in the NHS or social care. Perspective please
>
--- End Quote ---
Perspective is all well and good, but what good would
perspective do should one of our elite referees; who you note
are being paid thousands, were to be involved in say a car
accident travelling from South/Stockley Park to their nearest
airport to their home for a flight to a European game, after a
weekend of travel, refereeing, more travel, VAR duties, then
more travel to their northern UK based airport for their midweek
European game etc?
I'm sure that would read well on one of their tombstones.
Perspective please
Perspective indeed.
#Post#: 39472--------------------------------------------------
Re: FIFA referees travel
DIR By: bmb
Date: November 4, 2021, 6:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
>
> I agree that it is not sensible to have someone driving
themselves if they have not slept for so long. I don't know what
exactly the reality of the logistics for a FIFA referee is but
taking steps to help ensure sufficient opportunity for sleep and
avoiding excessive driving would seem appropriate and desirable,
to help support a referee's well-being, mitigate risk factors
and also help optimise performance level.
>
--- End Quote ---
Later flights after a game is such a simple one. Ridiculous they
have to be at the airport 6 hours after a game to fly back home,
especially when that 6 hours involves other things they have to
be doing eg. meetings with the match observer/delegate/meal with
the country FA representatives, it leaves no time for sleep
before leaving for the airport. Give them a later flight and
let them get some sleep first. Country FA's being a bit more
sensible with domestic appointments when they have a heavy
UEFA/FIFA schedule should theoretically be simple! That's what I
want to see.
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I'm aware that some commentaries are done off-tube but there
are many who will travel to numerous games, especially in
non-Covid times. Since the last international breaks, the
schedule for BT Sport's lead commentator Darren Fletcher has
been - Sat 16th October Watford V Liverpool, Tues 19th October
Atletico Madrid V Liverpool, Wed 20th October Man Utd V
Atalanta, Sat 23rd October Chelsea V Norwich, Sat 30th October
Leicester V Arsenal, Tues 2nd November Atalanta V Man Utd, Wed
3rd November Liverpool V Atletico Madrid. I believe all of these
games have been commentated on from the stadium. He also
presents on 5 Live every Friday. Many of his peers in broadcast
and print journalism will have similar schedules. You can't
really use the examples of people who don't do that, otherwise
someone could say 'never mind Michael Oliver, how many games
abroad has Tony Harrington done this season?'
>
--- End Quote ---
Fair points. It's probably 50/50 as to who in terms of the major
media outlets actually send people to games & who just use local
based staff. Myself & Tom both did the Budapest based Hungary v
England game for 2 of the major media outlets as foreign based
freelancers. I was at the game anyway so was approached to do
the written report for them on a freelance basis. Tom did the
same for a different major outlet. I suspect the size and
wealth of the company also plays a part, not all can afford the
high air fares, better quality hotels and car service that pick
these guys up at home & drive them to and from airports. It's
cheaper to pay a local person to do the report and the majority
of smaller media outlets will do so. Not that dissimilar to news
outlets picking stuff up from Reuters. It's arguably a much
easier role though sitting on your behind talking about the
game, commentating or making notes for a written report - even I
can manage that and do so regularly! I disagree you can't use
that argument though because we are talking just the top games
where it is common place for reporters to be local freelancers,
the BBC has loads of them in every country you can imagine as
one example, the wealthier outlets will send their own.
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Overall, I think the authorities do have a responsibility to
consider the wellbeing of referees and various actions could
help, if they are not currently implemented. But I think the
schedule of a few games most weeks is just a reality for many
people involved in elite football.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes it is but other sectors seem to be more pro-active in terms
of health & well being. I just want the referee authorities to
also be the same. Although I used István's schedule as an
example, he is not alone, I'd bet the vast majority if not all
of the elite FIFA referees rack up a similar mileage, similar
travel times, similar lack of rest periods along with the more
widely used Cat 1 refs. I want to see them ALL looked after
better!
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