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#Post#: 39491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Same Player red carded twice in the same match - Hungerford
v Maidstone
DIR By: nemesis
Date: November 5, 2021, 10:02 am
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--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
>
> Those who believe that - in Law - a caution is not correct
might want to consider the scenario where a a player attempts to
punch an opponent, but where the opponent manages to avoid the
blow? Is is not a red card because the player was unsuccessful
in his attempt at violent conduct?
>
--- End Quote ---
I've considered it and see no relevance to the issue in
question.
#Post#: 39492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Same Player red carded twice in the same match - Hungerford
v Maidstone
DIR By: nemesis
Date: November 5, 2021, 10:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> [quote author=RefObserver link=topic=3013.msg39480#msg39480
date=1636097644]
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=3013.msg39479#msg39479
date=1636094896]
> It depends on how you interpret the words "handles the ball".
>
> In the literal sense, handling the ball is just that. It does
not have to be the offence of handball as defined elsewhere in
Law.
>
> Morally, a player doing this is trying to benefit from
breaking the Laws of the game. The fact that he player was not
competent enough to achieve this outcome should not detract from
the player being sanctioned as per the Laws of the game.
>
> Those who believe that - in Law - a caution is not correct
might want to consider the scenario where a a player attempts to
punch an opponent, but where the opponent manages to avoid the
blow? Is is not a red card because the player was unsuccessful
in his attempt at violent conduct?
>
--- End Quote ---
Morning Leggy - it is an interesting point and a great
discussion.
My response to your point would be this though.......
For a a penal offence - such as a foul or indeed handball, one
of the requirements is that the ball is in play.
That is why I interpret "handling the ball" as just that. An
offence committed while play is in progress.
That is absolutely not the case for someone to commit violent
conduct. As such I would argue they are entirely different
scenarios and the comparison is not appropriate.
[/quote]
A fair point. As the caution would be for Unsporting Behaviour,
does the ball need to be in play?
[/quote]
You need to go back a step and asks what makes it unsporting
behaviour.
If you are going for the handles the ball option, then yes, in
my opinion it does.
If you are going for the fails to respect the game catch-all
obviously not. Then instead I would ask just how much disrespect
a player struck by the ball without any real intent to handle is
showing.
An interesting debate between those who are looking for ways to
caution a player and those who are looking to caution only where
necessary. I know which camp I'd rather be refereed by.
#Post#: 39494--------------------------------------------------
Re: Same Player red carded twice in the same match - Hungerford
v Maidstone
DIR By: Leggy
Date: November 5, 2021, 11:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=3013.msg39482#msg39482
date=1636105840]
> [quote author=RefObserver link=topic=3013.msg39480#msg39480
date=1636097644]
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=3013.msg39479#msg39479
date=1636094896]
> It depends on how you interpret the words "handles the ball".
>
> In the literal sense, handling the ball is just that. It does
not have to be the offence of handball as defined elsewhere in
Law.
>
> Morally, a player doing this is trying to benefit from
breaking the Laws of the game. The fact that he player was not
competent enough to achieve this outcome should not detract from
the player being sanctioned as per the Laws of the game.
>
> Those who believe that - in Law - a caution is not correct
might want to consider the scenario where a a player attempts to
punch an opponent, but where the opponent manages to avoid the
blow? Is is not a red card because the player was unsuccessful
in his attempt at violent conduct?
>
--- End Quote ---
Morning Leggy - it is an interesting point and a great
discussion.
My response to your point would be this though.......
For a a penal offence - such as a foul or indeed handball, one
of the requirements is that the ball is in play.
That is why I interpret "handling the ball" as just that. An
offence committed while play is in progress.
That is absolutely not the case for someone to commit violent
conduct. As such I would argue they are entirely different
scenarios and the comparison is not appropriate.
[/quote]
A fair point. As the caution would be for Unsporting Behaviour,
does the ball need to be in play?
[/quote]
You need to go back a step and asks what makes it unsporting
behaviour.
If you are going for the handles the ball option, then yes, in
my opinion it does.
If you are going for the fails to respect the game catch-all
obviously not. Then instead I would ask just how much disrespect
a player struck by the ball without any real intent to handle is
showing.
An interesting debate between those who are looking for ways to
caution a player and those who are looking to caution only where
necessary. I know which camp I'd rather be refereed by.
[/quote]
My criteria for cautioning were:
~ Where I felt it was necessary - including to protect the
integrity of the game, and
~ Where I may have felt it was not necessary but where the Laws
of the Game obliged me to.
I was not in the habit of looking for reasons to caution a
player. Equally, I was also not in the habit of treating the
Laws as an "a la carte menu" and only enforcing those I liked.
But, on reflection, that may go some way to explain why I was
not as successful as I might have been.
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