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#Post#: 38314--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: bmb
Date: October 6, 2021, 10:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> [quote author=LateTackle link=topic=2917.msg38301#msg38301
date=1633517951]
> My solution to this farcical situation is quite simple. Make
simulation a red card offence with that 2-game ban to follow.
It would solve the situation overnight in my view, as the likes
of Ronaldo, Kane, Grealish & Co would need to adjust or risk
being suspended for half the season.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that making simulation a red card offence would make the
majority of referees err on the side of caution (excuse the pun)
and do nothing. The risk of being wrong will prevent any
sanction being applied.
If simulation is spotted (either by the on-field referee or VAR)
it should be a caution and a two-game ban, with increased
suspensions for repeat offenders.
If simulation is not spotted by the on field referee (and there
is no VAR) but subsequently "proved" - as is alleged in this
case - the same sanction should apply. A retrospective caution
and a two-game ban.
There must be a system in place to rid the game of this.
Players who simulate being fouled and players that simulate
being seriously injured when they are not do so on purpose with
the objective of deceiving match officials and gaining an unfair
advantage. Any such players (I am not naming anyone so I can
reasonably use the "c" word) are cheating the game and cheating
everyone who has an interest in it.
All top level games (and plenty of others) are now filmed. The
images should be used to identify and punish the guilty. The
disciplinary authorities will be - initially - very busy, but if
they stick to their guns and retain their backbone their
workload will reduce over time and the game will benefit.
[/quote]
Agree with this. If referees are not giving out the yellow
cards, already available to them they are hardly going to start
giving out red cards for it. In many other leagues across
Europe simulation is frequently and consistently carded (as is
dissent) so incidents tend to be much lower than in the PL,
there is no follow up ban for it though which I would like to
see introduced. Any ban only comes via totting up the 5 cards so
doesn't address the actual issue of simulation. Personally I'd
like to see a 3 match ban for the first offence and then double
it for any repeat offence - 6 matches for a 2nd offence, 12 for
a 3rd offence. It would only take 2/3 players getting a ban
before coaches would be instructing their players to not even
think about it.
#Post#: 38318--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: ajb95
Date: October 6, 2021, 11:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2917.msg38304#msg38304
date=1633519387]
> [quote author=LateTackle link=topic=2917.msg38301#msg38301
date=1633517951]
> My solution to this farcical situation is quite simple. Make
simulation a red card offence with that 2-game ban to follow.
It would solve the situation overnight in my view, as the likes
of Ronaldo, Kane, Grealish & Co would need to adjust or risk
being suspended for half the season.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that making simulation a red card offence would make the
majority of referees err on the side of caution (excuse the pun)
and do nothing. The risk of being wrong will prevent any
sanction being applied.
If simulation is spotted (either by the on-field referee or VAR)
it should be a caution and a two-game ban, with increased
suspensions for repeat offenders.
If simulation is not spotted by the on field referee (and there
is no VAR) but subsequently "proved" - as is alleged in this
case - the same sanction should apply. A retrospective caution
and a two-game ban.
There must be a system in place to rid the game of this.
Players who simulate being fouled and players that simulate
being seriously injured when they are not do so on purpose with
the objective of deceiving match officials and gaining an unfair
advantage. Any such players (I am not naming anyone so I can
reasonably use the "c" word) are cheating the game and cheating
everyone who has an interest in it.
All top level games (and plenty of others) are now filmed. The
images should be used to identify and punish the guilty. The
disciplinary authorities will be - initially - very busy, but if
they stick to their guns and retain their backbone their
workload will reduce over time and the game will benefit.
[/quote]
Agree with this. If referees are not giving out the yellow
cards, already available to them they are hardly going to start
giving out red cards for it. In many other leagues across
Europe simulation is frequently and consistently carded (as is
dissent) so incidents tend to be much lower than in the PL,
there is no follow up ban for it though which I would like to
see introduced. Any ban only comes via totting up the 5 cards so
doesn't address the actual issue of simulation. Personally I'd
like to see a 3 match ban for the first offence and then double
it for any repeat offence - 6 matches for a 2nd offence, 12 for
a 3rd offence. It would only take 2/3 players getting a ban
before coaches would be instructing their players to not even
think about it.
[/quote]
As much as I agree, it will never happen. The PL is owned and
ran by its members - i.e. the clubs. As soon as their star
players start getting banned, they will call it for it to be
scrapped
#Post#: 38322--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: bmb
Date: October 6, 2021, 12:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=2917.msg38314#msg38314
date=1633535247]
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2917.msg38304#msg38304
date=1633519387]
> [quote author=LateTackle link=topic=2917.msg38301#msg38301
date=1633517951]
> My solution to this farcical situation is quite simple. Make
simulation a red card offence with that 2-game ban to follow.
It would solve the situation overnight in my view, as the likes
of Ronaldo, Kane, Grealish & Co would need to adjust or risk
being suspended for half the season.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that making simulation a red card offence would make the
majority of referees err on the side of caution (excuse the pun)
and do nothing. The risk of being wrong will prevent any
sanction being applied.
If simulation is spotted (either by the on-field referee or VAR)
it should be a caution and a two-game ban, with increased
suspensions for repeat offenders.
If simulation is not spotted by the on field referee (and there
is no VAR) but subsequently "proved" - as is alleged in this
case - the same sanction should apply. A retrospective caution
and a two-game ban.
There must be a system in place to rid the game of this.
Players who simulate being fouled and players that simulate
being seriously injured when they are not do so on purpose with
the objective of deceiving match officials and gaining an unfair
advantage. Any such players (I am not naming anyone so I can
reasonably use the "c" word) are cheating the game and cheating
everyone who has an interest in it.
All top level games (and plenty of others) are now filmed. The
images should be used to identify and punish the guilty. The
disciplinary authorities will be - initially - very busy, but if
they stick to their guns and retain their backbone their
workload will reduce over time and the game will benefit.
[/quote]
Agree with this. If referees are not giving out the yellow
cards, already available to them they are hardly going to start
giving out red cards for it. In many other leagues across
Europe simulation is frequently and consistently carded (as is
dissent) so incidents tend to be much lower than in the PL,
there is no follow up ban for it though which I would like to
see introduced. Any ban only comes via totting up the 5 cards so
doesn't address the actual issue of simulation. Personally I'd
like to see a 3 match ban for the first offence and then double
it for any repeat offence - 6 matches for a 2nd offence, 12 for
a 3rd offence. It would only take 2/3 players getting a ban
before coaches would be instructing their players to not even
think about it.
[/quote]
As much as I agree, it will never happen. The PL is owned and
ran by its members - i.e. the clubs. As soon as their star
players start getting banned, they will call it for it to be
scrapped
[/quote]
Nail on head. It's probably the main reason why other leagues
actually book players for simulation and in the PL it gets all
but ignored!
#Post#: 38323--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: doowe
Date: October 6, 2021, 1:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it. The best way to sort
this out is to deduct points, one point for every incident plus
any gained from the cheating. The managers would make sure it
stopped overnight
#Post#: 38375--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: LateTackle
Date: October 8, 2021, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=2917.msg38314#msg38314
date=1633535247]
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2917.msg38304#msg38304
date=1633519387]
> [quote author=LateTackle link=topic=2917.msg38301#msg38301
date=1633517951]
> My solution to this farcical situation is quite simple. Make
simulation a red card offence with that 2-game ban to follow.
It would solve the situation overnight in my view, as the likes
of Ronaldo, Kane, Grealish & Co would need to adjust or risk
being suspended for half the season.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that making simulation a red card offence would make the
majority of referees err on the side of caution (excuse the pun)
and do nothing. The risk of being wrong will prevent any
sanction being applied.
If simulation is spotted (either by the on-field referee or VAR)
it should be a caution and a two-game ban, with increased
suspensions for repeat offenders.
If simulation is not spotted by the on field referee (and there
is no VAR) but subsequently "proved" - as is alleged in this
case - the same sanction should apply. A retrospective caution
and a two-game ban.
There must be a system in place to rid the game of this.
Players who simulate being fouled and players that simulate
being seriously injured when they are not do so on purpose with
the objective of deceiving match officials and gaining an unfair
advantage. Any such players (I am not naming anyone so I can
reasonably use the "c" word) are cheating the game and cheating
everyone who has an interest in it.
All top level games (and plenty of others) are now filmed. The
images should be used to identify and punish the guilty. The
disciplinary authorities will be - initially - very busy, but if
they stick to their guns and retain their backbone their
workload will reduce over time and the game will benefit.
[/quote]
Agree with this. If referees are not giving out the yellow
cards, already available to them they are hardly going to start
giving out red cards for it. In many other leagues across
Europe simulation is frequently and consistently carded (as is
dissent) so incidents tend to be much lower than in the PL,
there is no follow up ban for it though which I would like to
see introduced. Any ban only comes via totting up the 5 cards so
doesn't address the actual issue of simulation. Personally I'd
like to see a 3 match ban for the first offence and then double
it for any repeat offence - 6 matches for a 2nd offence, 12 for
a 3rd offence. It would only take 2/3 players getting a ban
before coaches would be instructing their players to not even
think about it.
[/quote]
As much as I agree, it will never happen. The PL is owned and
ran by its members - i.e. the clubs. As soon as their star
players start getting banned, they will call it for it to be
scrapped
[/quote]
Sadly you are right. There is, as always, one rule for the
privileged and another for the rest. Premier League players
will get nothing more than a yellow card for simulation because
VAR will normally identify the offence. Elsewhere we see
players get suspended, but only if the referee misses the
offence. In Godden's case, a competent referee would have
carded him and that would be an end to it. Because Ward was
incompetent, Godden gets a 2 game ban. I would advocate a 2
match 'rest' for Ward too, given his performance in the game in
question.
My problem is not with the ban for Godden. It is the lack of
ban for elite players, many of whom are continual offenders, as
evidenced by the list of names from other posters. I still see
a red card as a means of stamping it out, but a 2 game ban for
every offender would certainly help. Clearly there is no real
will to sort this out by the Premier League, the EFL, or even
PGMOL. Weasel words and no action as usual.
#Post#: 38377--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: ajb95
Date: October 8, 2021, 7:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What about a 2 game ban for divers regardless of if they have
been cautioned or not - that way all will get the same
punishment and referees can go about their job knowing that even
if they miss a dive the player will still get punished?
#Post#: 38380--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: rustyref
Date: October 8, 2021, 7:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Players are very clever when it comes to diving, and unless it
is blatant it is very difficult for referees to spot real time.
In cautioning for it you are effectively calling them a cheat,
so it is understandable that referees want to be 100% sure
before going down that route.
Add in video replays though and it is much easier to spot, and
culprits should face escalating suspensions each time they are
found guilty. 2 games for the first time, 4 games the next
time, 8 games the next time, and so on. That would stamp it out
within a year, but for some reason the authorities appear to
have very little appetite to get involved unless it was the most
blatant of blatant dives.
#Post#: 38381--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: October 8, 2021, 8:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> Players are very clever when it comes to diving, and unless it
is blatant it is very difficult for referees to spot real time.
In cautioning for it you are effectively calling them a cheat,
so it is understandable that referees want to be 100% sure
before going down that route.
>
> Add in video replays though and it is much easier to spot, and
culprits should face escalating suspensions each time they are
found guilty. 2 games for the first time, 4 games the next
time, 8 games the next time, and so on. That would stamp it out
within a year, but for some reason the authorities appear to
have very little appetite to get involved unless it was the most
blatant of blatant dives.
>
--- End Quote ---
Of course that would be good, however the most successful
"divers" are those that have not been listed above ....
#Post#: 38382--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: October 8, 2021, 8:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: LateTackle link ---
>
>
>
> A couple of weeks ago RefWatch was extended by 15 minutes
because of the discussion relating to 3 simulation incidents by
one player, Ronaldo. All deemed not to be penalties but no
sanction given for any of the dives, nor for the tantrums and
dissent that followed.
>
--- End Quote ---
A bit late with this and while I acknowledge Ronaldo looks for
penalties, that is not a fair reflection on what was said on Ref
Watch. Dermot ruled one out straightaway but there was more
debate about the other 2. Of those, he decided no penalty was
right but the 3rd he was ambivalent about. The 2 pundits thought
at least 1 should have been a penalty. It is incorrect to say
they were all dives. There are plenty of situations where no
penalty and no card is correct. Yes, let's get to grips with
simulation and attempts to deceive the referee but let's focus
on the incidents where this applies. There may well be cases in
the future where Ronaldo is clearly guilty but I don't think
this was a fair example. I don't actually recall Dermot or the
pundits referring to a dive.
As rustyref points out, it's not always easy for a referee to
disentangle what has actually happened and I admit players can
be very clever in their actions to try and win penalties.
#Post#: 38385--------------------------------------------------
Re: G WARD - Coventry v Fulham
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: October 8, 2021, 9:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> I don't actually recall Dermot or the pundits referring to a
dive.
>
--- End Quote ---
Frightened of litigation?
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