URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       RateTheRef
  HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: General Discussion
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 36956--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: Hughesy66
       Date: September 3, 2021, 2:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Sorry but I disagree that this is just down to a minority of
       fans. The current government very recently brought in
       legislation banning discussion on the topic of homosexuality.
       They have banned anything that shows homosexuality in a positive
       light. The President called Muslim refugees “invaders” and their
       immigration policy has breached international human rights for
       years.
       As the above post states, this current Hungarian government have
       absolutely given the green light to xenophobia, racism and
       homophobia. Whilst of course that doesn’t mean all Hungarians
       are any of those things, this current social situation in
       Hungary allows those who do have those views to voice them
       publicly and free from prosecution or reprisal as they did
       shamefully last night.
       The only way to rid football of this cancer is to throw the book
       very hard. Long term stadium ban or even banned from tournament
       qualification as English clubs were for their hooligan problems
       (which wasn’t all fans either) in the 80s. Perhaps then the
       government may sit up and listen, especially at a time when
       qualification for these tournament is a very real possibility
       for Hungary with their decent team
       #Post#: 36965--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: September 3, 2021, 5:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Don’t judge a nation of people by their government especially
       when the voting system is as iffy as it is. Hungarian people are
       no more Viktor Orbán than English people are Boris Johnson. Are
       everyone in England racists because he uses comments such as
       picanini children, watermelon smiles, refers to Muslim women as
       looking like letter boxes and countless other equally as
       appalling statements?  Brexit was born out of racism and
       xenophobia, add in the wind rush scandal. Johnson is more like
       Orbán than he’s not. He also describes him as a great and strong
       leader. Like the majority of English people, the majority of
       Hungarians disagree.
       #Post#: 36966--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: September 3, 2021, 5:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I eagerly await the book being thrown at England for the fiasco
       at the Euros and for stadium bans being imposed by UEFA and
       FIFA.
       We are no better in this country than a lot of places in the
       World where football is used as a vehicle for some of the
       population to follow their racist, homophobic or whatever
       agendas they wish in order to cause disruption.
       A minority of English fans boo the knee being taken so who are
       we to criticise a minority of Hungarian fans doing the same?
       #Post#: 36968--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: September 3, 2021, 6:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree the authorities, including ours, need to do a whole lot
       more and be a lot tougher. They also need to be consistent. No
       action taken against Romania for 90min of their fans calling
       Hungarians bozgor, Hungary got a ban for some fans chanting
       Transylvania belongs to Hungary, part of Hungary’s current ban
       is for booing other nation’s national anthem, where is the ban
       for England and Germany who also had fans booing national
       anthems. England fans being racist towards their own players -
       no ban. Romanian fans being Xenophobic - no ban. Serbian fans
       being racist and xenophobic - banned. Bulgaria fans banned for
       racism. Czech Republic - no ban for Xenophobia. There is no
       consistency and there needs to be. The bigger, more profitable
       nations get away with a lot, the smaller non money making
       nations get penalised every time. The former is wrong, the
       latter is correct. All nations should get punished for it but
       they don’t.
       #Post#: 36971--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: mick745
       Date: September 3, 2021, 7:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > Don’t judge a nation of people by their government especially
       when the voting system is as iffy as it is. Hungarian people are
       no more Viktor Orbán than English people are Boris Johnson. Are
       everyone in England racists because he uses comments such as
       picanini children, watermelon smiles, refers to Muslim women as
       looking like letter boxes and countless other equally as
       appalling statements?  Brexit was born out of racism and
       xenophobia, add in the wind rush scandal. Johnson is more like
       Orbán than he’s not. He also describes him as a great and strong
       leader. Like the majority of English people, the majority of
       Hungarians disagree.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Persumably the hungarian leader is there through a democratic
       process, same as our prime minister?  Much was made during the
       last election of these quoted remarks, some of which were taken
       out of context as they were part of much larger written pieces
       from Johnson's time as a journalist.
       But he still managed to smash an opposition leader who had done
       nothing to prevent the persecution of jewish mps and other
       members of the party, cozied up to Hamas and Hezbollah and
       called the IRA heroes.
       #Post#: 36975--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: September 3, 2021, 7:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Charlieboy link ---
       >
       > I’m quite disappointed that rather than address the issue all
       I have read here and in the press with quotes attributed to high
       ranking public figures is that this country did this that
       country did that , I’m not interested what I’m interested in is
       a formal blanket policy followed by all nations and national
       associations to eradicate this disgusting behaviour towards
       fellow human beings , no race,sex, sexual orientation,religion
       or anything else is more or less important than another , so
       this crap must stop , also must the excuses the finger pointing
       and the minimising. Cut the political crap and treat ALL
       discrimination strongly and with zero tolerance.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I have been treating all people as I wish to be treated for all
       of my 74 years, however, this has only had an effect on me and
       those I have mixed with. Sad to say that you will never reach
       the Utopian state, no matter what you do because there has
       always been and will always be those who will discriminate
       ---for whatever reason.
       The vast majority of the World's population just want to get on
       and live their lives, however, there will always be those who
       are not willing to accept the constraints under which they live
       and will continue to disrupt whatever they can to achieve their
       own aims. Very sad!
       #Post#: 36977--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çakır - Hungary v England
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: September 3, 2021, 8:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: mick745 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=bmb link=topic=2819.msg36965#msg36965
       date=1630666287]
       > Don’t judge a nation of people by their government especially
       when the voting system is as iffy as it is. Hungarian people are
       no more Viktor Orbán than English people are Boris Johnson. Are
       everyone in England racists because he uses comments such as
       picanini children, watermelon smiles, refers to Muslim women as
       looking like letter boxes and countless other equally as
       appalling statements?  Brexit was born out of racism and
       xenophobia, add in the wind rush scandal. Johnson is more like
       Orbán than he’s not. He also describes him as a great and strong
       leader. Like the majority of English people, the majority of
       Hungarians disagree.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Persumably the hungarian leader is there through a democratic
       process, same as our prime minister?  Much was made during the
       last election of these quoted remarks, some of which were taken
       out of context as they were part of much larger written pieces
       from Johnson's time as a journalist.
       But he still managed to smash an opposition leader who had done
       nothing to prevent the persecution of jewish mps and other
       members of the party, cozied up to Hamas and Hezbollah and
       called the IRA heroes.
       [/quote]
       Democratic in so far as there is no viable opposition party -
       it's a 1 party state in reality. He's known as the Viktator in
       many circles. Seems many criminals stand against him as anyone
       looking vaguely popular suddenly end up arrested, convicted of
       something and are then by law prevented from standing in an
       election. Add in little things like opposition candidates having
       their photos in the state owned press, headlined "enemy of the
       people" and their name, address, phone number etc along with it.
       Very democratic... Pretty good round up here:
  HTML https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/breaking-fresh-evidence-hungary-vote-rigging-raises-concerns-fraud-european-elections/<br
       />
       There are opposition parties but they have a similar impact to
       say the Green party in England. Some of them are more Monster
       Raving loony party than anything else!! Small in numbers and not
       enough to challenge the big parties. There is currently an
       opposition coalition intending to stand against him in the 2022
       made up of literally every other party. They've been working
       together instead of against each other for a change.  The total
       votes for all the parties combined would be enough to win an
       election so instead of splitting the vote against him where no
       other party can win, they have formed a single opposition
       coalition where the votes will count as a whole together. That
       said Jobbik have just done or said something that's upset some
       of the other parties and it could all fall apart again.
       Illiberal democracy is I believe the correct political
       term/description.
       Under his leadership, wages have increased under him, job
       security has increased, unemployment is down, GDP is up, he
       handled covid well, especially early on. Hungary went straight
       into lockdown in Feb 2020 with just a handful of cases at the
       time, the numbers there were low in comparison to most of
       Europe, the vaccination program was very quick and well ahead of
       any other country in Europe. If not for the extreme views and
       the corruption allegations he's actually a very good leader in
       many ways. He's also very charming and charismatic which as we
       all know goes a long way.
       #Post#: 36978--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çak&#305;r - Hungary v England
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: September 3, 2021, 8:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Charlieboy link ---
       >
       > ...what I’m interested in is a formal blanket policy followed
       by all nations and national associations to eradicate this
       disgusting behaviour towards fellow human beings , no race,sex,
       sexual orientation,religion or anything else is more or less
       important than another , so this crap must stop , also must the
       excuses the finger pointing and the minimising. Cut the
       political crap and treat ALL discrimination strongly and with
       zero tolerance.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I completely agree and that is what I have been saying, it
       should apply to all but it isn't. It is equally as vile
       whoever's mouths it comes out of.
       #Post#: 36982--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çak&#305;r - Hungary v England
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: September 3, 2021, 10:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Don't get me wrong, what the so called England fans did at
       Wembley deserves serious punishment.  There is a difference
       though in that they were ticketless supporters trying to force
       entry, as opposed to legitimate ticket holders in the stadium as
       was the case last night.  Whilst I think those booing the taking
       of the knee are braindead morons, I don't think it is really a
       racist action as such and rather they are objecting to the
       principle.  And yes, whilst some idiots attacked black England
       players after the game, this was internet trolls hiding behind
       anonymous accounts thinking they are the big I am.  There wasn't
       any racial abuse in the stadium that I know of.
       I'm old enough to remember frequent racist abuse in English
       stadiums, in fact you don't need to be that old to remember when
       large sections of the crowd would target black players, and we
       all remember the disgusting act of bananas being thrown at them.
       Thankfully though actual racist abuse inside English stadiums
       is extremely rare now, and when it happens it is normally just
       one or two people that are easy to identify and deal with.  That
       certainly wasn't the case in Budapest last night, and there was
       also the very real problem of players being pelted with objects,
       something again you rarely see in English grounds these days.
       I'm not commenting on society in general in the Eastern European
       countries as I have no experience or knowledge, but I do watch
       enough football to say that it is still a significant problem in
       that region, and certainly not just in Hungary.  UEFA and FIFA
       don't help as they charge clubs and issue pitiful fines, sure we
       all remember the one where Nicholas Bendtner got a bigger fine
       for showing advertising on his pants than a nation did for
       serious racial abuse of players.  And clearly stadium closures
       don't act as a deterrent as it happens again once they are open
       again, so perhaps now the time has come for points deductions
       for nations that don't deal with it, and the ultimate sanction
       of expulsion.
       #Post#: 36984--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cüneyt Çak&#305;r - Hungary v England
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: September 3, 2021, 11:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Whatever we say about last night, I was very disappointed that
       Sterling took his shirt off in order to show a message, which
       the majority of Hungarian fans would not understand and which
       could have been anything as far as they were concerned, and
       having done this he starts prancing around in front of those
       fans. The question for me is why did he take this action, was he
       trying to provoke the fans as Rice, who was very lucky not to
       receive a red card earlier, did when he scored.
       Their minority of fans were no worse than the so-called English
       fans who stole phones etc. and harassed people in order to gain
       illegal access to Wembley or those who used the internet in
       order to pour racial abuse on English players. They are all
       vile.
       *****************************************************
       Page 2 of 3
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page