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#Post#: 2197--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: November 4, 2018, 9:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Game of Throw Ins link ---
>
> Have to admit my first thought was that Probert could have
turned a blind eye under these exceptional circumstances but
then I thought what if the player had committed a yellow card
offence later in the game. That would have meant he would have
remained on the field when, by the letter of the law, Leicester
should have been down to ten men which would have been unfair to
Cardiff for whom every point is vital.
>
> I've never understood why under normal circumstances players
remove their shirts to celebrate a goal, hardly a natural
reaction, but then again I don't really see why it is
particularly seen as an incitement to fans of the opposition.
>
--- End Quote ---
Personally, I would argue that it would have been 'unfair' on
Gray to be sent off when 50%of his punishment was simply due to
being the one who happened to score the first goal for Leicester
after the owner's death. I presume the same celebration would
have occurred regardless of who scored.
I do wonder what Probert's decision would have been if the
scoring player had already been on a yellow card at the time.
Equally, I wonder what will happen if a Leicester player does
similar after scoring next week in Leicester's first home match
since the tragedy. Will they caution to maintain consistency or
after the backlash will they take a different view?
#Post#: 2203--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: November 4, 2018, 2:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=271.msg2181#msg2181
date=1541331669]
> Every Leicester player had the same message on their
undergarments ready for whoever scored. This must/should have
been discussed within the Ivory Towers, Leicester City and the
team of officials prior game. If not, someone should be
explaining why not or conversely why Lee Probert is now being
'hung out to dry' in the media's eye
> What would have happened if all eleven players had removed
their shirts in a joint celebration?
>
--- End Quote ---
Presumably only the one who scored would have been cautioned?
The offence is not shirt removal per se but overcelebrating
scoring a goal?
[/quote]
What if it had been an own goal?
#Post#: 2216--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: bmb
Date: November 5, 2018, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=271.msg2181#msg2181
date=1541331669]
> Every Leicester player had the same message on their
undergarments ready for whoever scored. This must/should have
been discussed within the Ivory Towers, Leicester City and the
team of officials prior game. If not, someone should be
explaining why not or conversely why Lee Probert is now being
'hung out to dry' in the media's eye
> What would have happened if all eleven players had removed
their shirts in a joint celebration?
>
--- End Quote ---
Presumably only the one who scored would have been cautioned?
The offence is not shirt removal per se but overcelebrating
scoring a goal?
[/quote]
Removal of the shirt is a specified offence under Law 12, the
exact wording is:
Celebration of a goal
Players can celebrate when a goal is scored, but the celebration
must not be excessive; choreographed celebrations are not
encouraged and must not cause excessive time-wasting.
Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a
cautionable offence but players should return as soon as
possible.
A player must be cautioned for:
• climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the
spectators in a manner which causes safety and/or security
issues
• gesturing or acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory
way
• covering the head or face with a mask or other similar item
• removing the shirt or covering the head with the shirt
#Post#: 2225--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: November 5, 2018, 6:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=271.msg2186#msg2186
date=1541335959]
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=271.msg2181#msg2181
date=1541331669]
> Every Leicester player had the same message on their
undergarments ready for whoever scored. This must/should have
been discussed within the Ivory Towers, Leicester City and the
team of officials prior game. If not, someone should be
explaining why not or conversely why Lee Probert is now being
'hung out to dry' in the media's eye
> What would have happened if all eleven players had removed
their shirts in a joint celebration?
>
--- End Quote ---
Presumably only the one who scored would have been cautioned?
The offence is not shirt removal per se but overcelebrating
scoring a goal?
[/quote]
Removal of the shirt is a specified offence under Law 12, the
exact wording is:
Celebration of a goal
Players can celebrate when a goal is scored, but the celebration
must not be excessive; choreographed celebrations are not
encouraged and must not cause excessive time-wasting.
Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a
cautionable offence but players should return as soon as
possible.
A player must be cautioned for:
• climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the
spectators in a manner which causes safety and/or security
issues
• gesturing or acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory
way
• covering the head or face with a mask or other similar item
• removing the shirt or covering the head with the shirt
[/quote]
It also does not specify that only the scorer is susceptible to
a caution for an offence.
#Post#: 2258--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: November 5, 2018, 3:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Neil Swarbrick comments in today's Times, "I really felt for Lee
Probert when he gave Gray a yellow card for taking his shirt off
after scoring. No referee would want to issue that card
considering what has gone on at Leicester in the past nine days.
But a yellow card is mandatory according to the rules (the law
exists to to try to stop political messages and time wasting)
and, if he lets it go, it becomes a problem down the line. Does
he then have to let another player off in future? What if that
was a second yellow card? He has to be consistent".
There is also a picture of the incident with the caption, 'Gray
removed his shirt to reveal a tribute to Vichai but was booked
by an almost apologetic Probert too'
I and others picked up on Lee's expression as he reached for his
yellow card, and I think it says it all. To my mind, Lee was
almost embarrassed to have to caution Gray but Neil was right to
say that Lee needed to be consistent. I doubt whether it will
happen, but wouldn't it be nice if the authorities could back
Lee but then remove the caution from the records, given the
extraordinary circumstances at the game on Saturday?
#Post#: 2259--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: reflector
Date: November 6, 2018, 2:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> Neil Swarbrick comments in today's Times, "I really felt for
Lee Probert when he gave Gray a yellow card for taking his shirt
off after scoring. No referee would want to issue that card
considering what has gone on at Leicester in the past nine days.
But a yellow card is mandatory according to the rules (the law
exists to to try to stop political messages and time wasting)
and, if he lets it go, it becomes a problem down the line. Does
he then have to let another player off in future? What if that
was a second yellow card? He has to be consistent".
>
> There is also a picture of the incident with the caption,
'Gray removed his shirt to reveal a tribute to Vichai but was
booked by an almost apologetic Probert too'
>
> I and others picked up on Lee's expression as he reached for
his yellow card, and I think it says it all. To my mind, Lee was
almost embarrassed to have to caution Gray but Neil was right to
say that Lee needed to be consistent. I doubt whether it will
happen, but wouldn't it be nice if the authorities could back
Lee but then remove the caution from the records, given the
extraordinary circumstances at the game on Saturday?
>
--- End Quote ---
I certainly agree with AT's last suggestion but I have to say
that I am not over impressed, generally, with Swarbrick's
comments which appear from time to time in The Thunderer. He
seems to take the view that his role is to toe the party line
and, although I've probably not seen them all, invariably, his
comments are in support of officialdom. I think he would have
more credibility if maybe, just occasionally, he was to express
a different view from those of his former colleagues.
#Post#: 2261--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: November 6, 2018, 2:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As a matter of interest, Neil Swarbrick also commented on the
Mane offside incident (Arsenal v Liverpool) and he said that the
AR was wrong to flag for offside and the goal should have stood.
Perhaps not the most controversial of issues but he was
certainly not supporting the view of former colleagues on this
particular issue.
#Post#: 2262--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: reflector
Date: November 6, 2018, 3:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> As a matter of interest, Neil Swarbrick also commented on the
Mane offside incident (Arsenal v Liverpool) and he said that the
AR was wrong to flag for offside and the goal should have stood.
Perhaps not the most controversial of issues but he was
certainly not supporting the view of former colleagues on this
particular issue.
>
--- End Quote ---
Glad he's adopted my suggestion (even before I wrote it!!!).
#Post#: 2356--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: November 10, 2018, 8:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I fear that Martin Atkinson might have made a mockery of all of
this by seemingly failing to caution Bamba for clearly taking
his shirt off when scoring for Cardiff at the same stadium
today.
Even if he didn't book him, I bet he still gets a Premier League
game in the next round of fixtures!
#Post#: 2357--------------------------------------------------
Re: L PROBERT - Cardiff v Leicester
DIR By: Stroudie
Date: November 10, 2018, 8:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Martin Atkinson has really let Lee Probert down,how could he
have missed it,he took his shirt of and threw it away
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