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       #Post#: 31167--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: May 8, 2021, 10:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Claretman link ---
       >
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2437.msg31137#msg31137
       date=1620462421]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=2437.msg31136#msg31136
       date=1620460138]
       > Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move
       the final?"
       >
       > These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway
       movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe
       with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA
       give them the opportunity.
       >
       > If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if
       they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that,
       although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup
       semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for
       the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later,
       ostensibly in a much healthier country.
       >
       > Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with
       interest.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the
       highest Covid infection rates in the World.  That alone is a
       valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and
       could be anywhere with a low infection rate.
       [/quote]
       Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move
       the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
       With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.
       Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country
       with low infection rates.
       [/quote]
       Not UK then
       #Post#: 31168--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: May 8, 2021, 11:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TVOS link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=2437.msg31151#msg31151
       date=1620476857]
       > Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses
       on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
       competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
       Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
       final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
       for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
       finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
       to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
       it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
       UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
       is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
       The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
       and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
       and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
       brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
       aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
       final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
       await the brickbats.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global
       pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it
       another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very
       unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver
       referee their second FA Cup Finals.
       Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the
       hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.
       Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!
       [/quote]
       There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved
       to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and
       deaths but has been hit badly by variants.
       I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self
       isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the
       euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time
       to rest and isolate 👍
       #Post#: 31172--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: Irrelohe
       Date: May 8, 2021, 1:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Some very sensible comments since my original contribution to
       this thread. I certainly wasn't trying to be (or suggesting that
       UEFA were) "sensitive and immoral". I entirely agree that if
       UEFA consider that it is not safe for players, staff, officials,
       fans (if relevant) etc to attend then they should seek to move
       the venue - subject of course to the precise terms of the
       contract which awarded the final to Istanbul. However, as far as
       I am aware, UEFA have not - to date - concluded that it would be
       unsafe to go ahead with the final in Turkey. As long as that
       remains the case, it seems appropriate for the final to go ahead
       as scheduled, and in particular I don't think UEFA should allow
       themselves to be swayed by the fact that the final is being
       contested by two English teams and that the UK government's
       position is that (if indeed this is the case) those involved
       would have to self-isolate etc on returning to the UK. The
       latter point arises entirely from the actions of the UK
       government and is surely no concern of UEFA. (That last point
       explains my reference to Britocentricity). I doubt the same
       furore would have arisen had only one English team made it to
       the final; and if no English team had made it, this thread would
       not even have been started. (And no, I do not regard myself as
       Britocentric - I have no shame in saying I am a fervent
       remainer, and as someone with Continental European heritage I
       like to think that I can see both sides of these issues).
       With reference to Whistleblower's comments re fans, my apologies
       but I've not kept up with the issue as to whether fans are to be
       allowed in Istanbul. If not, you could perhaps argue that there
       is an inconsistency with UEFA's stance on the Euros, but of
       course one difference is that the CL final was awarded to a
       specific stadium whereas these Euros were always intended to be
       spread around, and one could perhaps understand UEFA taking the
       view that in the current situation only countries which allowed
       fans in should have Euros hosting rights. I don't really think a
       precedent would be set.
       #Post#: 31176--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: May 8, 2021, 1:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=TVOS link=topic=2437.msg31153#msg31153
       date=1620477978]
       > [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=2437.msg31151#msg31151
       date=1620476857]
       > Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses
       on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
       competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
       Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
       final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
       for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
       finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
       to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
       it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
       UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
       is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
       The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
       and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
       and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
       brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
       aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
       final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
       await the brickbats.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global
       pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it
       another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very
       unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver
       referee their second FA Cup Finals.
       Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the
       hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.
       Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!
       [/quote]
       There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved
       to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and
       deaths but has been hit badly by variants.
       I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self
       isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the
       euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time
       to rest and isolate 👍
       [/quote]
       Apart from lots of them are due to join their international
       squads a few days after.
       #Post#: 31177--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: GameDay2021
       Date: May 8, 2021, 1:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=2437.msg31168#msg31168
       date=1620489804]
       > [quote author=TVOS link=topic=2437.msg31153#msg31153
       date=1620477978]
       > [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=2437.msg31151#msg31151
       date=1620476857]
       > Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses
       on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
       competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
       Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
       final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
       for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
       finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
       to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
       it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
       UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
       is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
       The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
       and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
       and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
       brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
       aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
       final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
       await the brickbats.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global
       pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it
       another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very
       unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver
       referee their second FA Cup Finals.
       Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the
       hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.
       Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!
       [/quote]
       There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved
       to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and
       deaths but has been hit badly by variants.
       I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self
       isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the
       euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time
       to rest and isolate 👍
       [/quote]
       Apart from lots of them are due to join their international
       squads a few days after.
       [/quote]
       There is such thing as the general public who they may contact
       with
       #Post#: 31178--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: May 8, 2021, 2:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: GameDay2021 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2437.msg31176#msg31176
       date=1620499653]
       > [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=2437.msg31168#msg31168
       date=1620489804]
       > [quote author=TVOS link=topic=2437.msg31153#msg31153
       date=1620477978]
       > [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=2437.msg31151#msg31151
       date=1620476857]
       > Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses
       on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
       competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
       Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
       final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
       for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
       finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
       to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
       it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
       UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
       is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
       The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
       and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
       and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
       brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
       aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
       final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
       await the brickbats.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global
       pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it
       another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very
       unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver
       referee their second FA Cup Finals.
       Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the
       hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.
       Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!
       [/quote]
       There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved
       to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and
       deaths but has been hit badly by variants.
       I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self
       isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the
       euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time
       to rest and isolate 👍
       [/quote]
       Apart from lots of them are due to join their international
       squads a few days after.
       [/quote]
       There is such thing as the general public who they may contact
       with
       [/quote]
       My point was that there isn't a lot of time for them to rest and
       isolate as was suggested.
       Also, it isn't just down to isolation.  It is illegal to travel
       to Turkey from the UK, all direct flights are banned (including
       chartered flights), and unless the government change their
       stance from what they have done previously there will be no
       exception for elite sports.
       #Post#: 31179--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: May 8, 2021, 2:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Claretman link=topic=2437.msg31142#msg31142
       date=1620469131]
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2437.msg31137#msg31137
       date=1620462421]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=2437.msg31136#msg31136
       date=1620460138]
       > Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move
       the final?"
       >
       > These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway
       movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe
       with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA
       give them the opportunity.
       >
       > If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if
       they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that,
       although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup
       semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for
       the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later,
       ostensibly in a much healthier country.
       >
       > Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with
       interest.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the
       highest Covid infection rates in the World.  That alone is a
       valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and
       could be anywhere with a low infection rate.
       [/quote]
       Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move
       the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
       With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.
       Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country
       with low infection rates.
       [/quote]
       Not UK then
       [/quote]
       That comment makes no sense at all, as the UK now have one of
       the lowest case rates in Europe, despite carrying out more tests
       than most.  On Friday the UK had 2,613 positive tests.  France
       had almost 22000, Italy nearly 12000, Germany 17000, and Turkey
       over 22,000.
       #Post#: 31207--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: bruntyboy
       Date: May 8, 2021, 6:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=2437.msg31151#msg31151
       date=1620476857]
       > Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses
       on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
       competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
       Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
       final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
       for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
       finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
       to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
       it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
       UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
       is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
       The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
       and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
       and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
       brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
       aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
       final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
       await the brickbats.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't hold
       it in Turkey.  Not because it is two English teams, but because
       Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries for
       Covid.  If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold the
       final in India would you still be taking the same stance?
       [/quote]
       It won't be a long time coming.
       #Post#: 31209--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: Ted
       Date: May 9, 2021, 1:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Coventry become European City of Culture in the next few weeks
       so play it there. Its halfway between London and Manchester and
       just off the motorway.
       #Post#: 31278--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: May 10, 2021, 3:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League
       Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off
       matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and
       see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets
       these things right in the event that they publish a story. I
       imagine the Clubs who got to  aPlay Off final would be consulted
       about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.
       *****************************************************
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