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#Post#: 31154--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: May 8, 2021, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Irrelohe link ---
>
> Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses
on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
await the brickbats.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is a perfectly well thought out position but I don't agree
with it so no brickbats from me but a counter argument. I think
if the match went ahead in Turkey, with no fans present, it
would be another step along the road of seeing major football
competitions as primarily for a (paying) TV audience and further
removed from the fan base. Slight shades of the Super League
controversy. It's certainly one way to go but I think there
would have to be an end to the mantra of "without fans nothing".
I hold very little brief for the present UK Government but its
primary responsibility is to keep its citizens safe and if that
entails Lists of countries deemed safe or unsafe to visit then
so be it. If one wants to elevate the autonomy of UEFA above
other considerations then go ahead in Turkey; I think it would
be to the overall detriment of the game as I have sought to
outline.
#Post#: 31155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: GameDay2021
Date: May 8, 2021, 7:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> Windsor Park Belfast
> Lansdowne Road Dublin (well Aviva Stadium I think it's called
now)
>
>
> Both in the CTA anyway so no quarantine etc
>
--- End Quote ---
Ireland aren't able to have fans. Windsor Park could be an
option tho as rules are different in NI and ROI
Edited to fix quote thingamajigga
#Post#: 31157--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: May 8, 2021, 7:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There is a pub in Ipswich called The Case Is Altered. As TVOS
points out that is precisely what the pandemic has done to the
honour of Turkey being awarded the honour of staging the
Champions League Final. Due consideration of the case being
altered should be made with subsequent decisions flowing from
that.
#Post#: 31158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: Hendo
Date: May 8, 2021, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=2437.msg31151#msg31151
date=1620476857]
> Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses
on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
await the brickbats.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is a perfectly well thought out position but I don't agree
with it so no brickbats from me but a counter argument. I think
if the match went ahead in Turkey, with no fans present, it
would be another step along the road of seeing major football
competitions as primarily for a (paying) TV audience and further
removed from the fan base. Slight shades of the Super League
controversy. It's certainly one way to go but I think there
would have to be an end to the mantra of "without fans nothing".
I hold very little brief for the present UK Government but its
primary responsibility is to keep its citizens safe and if that
entails Lists of countries deemed safe or unsafe to visit then
so be it. If one wants to elevate the autonomy of UEFA above
other considerations then go ahead in Turkey; I think it would
be to the overall detriment of the game as I have sought to
outline.
[/quote]
As ever, and as we have come to expect, Whistleblower the voice
of reason! 👍🏻
#Post#: 31159--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: bmb
Date: May 8, 2021, 8:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: GameDay2021 link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=2437.msg31150#msg31150
date=1620476710]
> Windsor Park Belfast
> Lansdowne Road Dublin (well Aviva Stadium I think it's called
now)
>
>
> Both in the CTA anyway so no quarantine etc
>
--- End Quote ---
Ireland aren't able to have fans. Windsor Park could be an
option tho as rules are different in NI and ROI
Edited to fix quote thingamajigga
[/quote]
Of course they aren't hence why they lost the Euros games -
completely forgot that! Was just thinking for somewhere not in
England that would be easier in terms of travel restrictions!
#Post#: 31160--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: rustyref
Date: May 8, 2021, 8:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Irrelohe link ---
>
> Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses
on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
await the brickbats.
>
--- End Quote ---
It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't hold
it in Turkey. Not because it is two English teams, but because
Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries for
Covid. If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold the
final in India would you still be taking the same stance?
#Post#: 31161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: bmb
Date: May 8, 2021, 9:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Irrelohe link ---
>
> Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses
on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA
competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in
Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the
final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically,
for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two
finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues
to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that
it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of
UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend
is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned..
The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government
and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is
and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any
brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be
aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the
final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I
await the brickbats.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't believe that the final should be moved because of who is
playing in it but I do believe it should be moved if there is a
risk to the health and well being of the players, club staff and
match officials involved. I believe that risk exists due to the
pandemic and the current situation in Turkey. I personally do
not believe that if the hosting nation is moved due to the
pandemic that it should be moved to England just because the
teams are from there - anywhere but imo. It should then be
awarded to Turkey automatically next year when hopefully they
can host it in its full glory.
UEFA have an obligation to protect the health and well being of
the players, club staff, match officials and supporters. That
should be above anything else. If they feel that there is no
risk to the players, club staff and the match officials then
they have the option to have the game go ahead with no
supporters. I think however that would be in a direct conflict
on their stance on the Euro 2020(1) matches where host nations
that could not comply with a minimum % of fans being allowed to
attend had their games taken away from them. Either the fans
matter or they don't - their stance on the Euros is that they do
matter and stadiums that can't have them have therefore lost
out. I believe they should apply the same principle to this
match.
It is simply not true however, that "The concept of a red list
is an invention of the UK government". Every country within
Europe (probably the world right now actually) have their own
list of red, amber and green countries - it is not unique to the
UK, nor were the UK the first to implement such lists. Hungary
has been implementing them since March 2020 right at the start
of the pandemic, well before the UK government ever considered
having them. Quite frankly the UK have been well behind everyone
else in terms of their response to a global pandemic with the
exception of the vaccine roll out & that is down to the NHS more
than the government, imo.
#Post#: 31162--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: LateTackle
Date: May 8, 2021, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't
hold it in Turkey. Not because it is two English teams, but
because Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries
for Covid. If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold
the final in India would you still be taking the same stance?
>
--- End Quote ---
I would agree with that. Turkey would seem to be no longer a
reasonable option but that doesn't mean it has to come to
England. I believe Estadio da Luz in Lisbon would be an ideal
venue, great stadium and a fantastic city. Otherwise, looking
at the so-called green list, how about Gibraltar? Or the
Falklands??
#Post#: 31164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: RCG
Date: May 8, 2021, 9:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Didnt Lisbon have it last year during first lockdown?
#Post#: 31165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
DIR By: GameDay2021
Date: May 8, 2021, 9:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> Didnt Lisbon have it last year during first lockdown?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yep
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