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#Post#: 29190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 31, 2021, 11:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> I suppose the issue is how experience in the women's game is
considered compared with experience in the men's game.
>
--- End Quote ---
That was why I chose the analogy with the men's youth leagues &
the early ELQ games as I would personally consider the top
women's game to at least be comparable to those levels. Even I
accept it's not right up there with the mens Euros etc. I'd say
she did 10 years of games at a level comparable with the lower
levels men's matches that would be covered by groups 2 & 3 in
the main.
I'm pretty sure if Rebecca did look in on RTR & I have no idea
if she does or doesn't she'd be delighted we are discussing it
calmly, rationally and respectfully.
#Post#: 29191--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: March 31, 2021, 11:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for this bmb. Thinking about the debate on here, (
good heavens I might even have been looking at myself hard, you
never know ;) ) I recall one of my absolute favourite singers
of all time, Ella Fitzgerald and her incomparable version of '
The Lady is a Tramp ' and singing these lyrics "won't dish the
dirt with the rest of the girls " and in my book, if it's good
enough for Ella then it's good enough for anybody.
#Post#: 29192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: March 31, 2021, 11:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=2298.msg29188#msg29188
date=1617204896]
> I suppose the issue is how experience in the women's game is
considered compared with experience in the men's game.
>
--- End Quote ---
That was why I chose the analogy with the men's youth leagues &
the early ELQ games as I would personally consider the top
women's game to at least be comparable to those levels. Even I
accept it's not right up there with the mens Euros etc. I'd say
she did 10 years of games at a level comparable with the lower
levels men's matches that would be covered by groups 2 & 3 in
the main.
I'm pretty sure if Rebecca did look in on RTR & I have no idea
if she does or doesn't she'd be delighted we are discussing it
calmly, rationally and respectfully.
[/quote]
I think another point is that an elite UEFA referee in a women's
CL or men's CL match will be expected to show the same level in
terms of technical performance. While obviously this might be
more challenging in the men's CL I would agree with your point
that it is certainly as difficult in the women's CL as in men's
UEFA youth leagues, I'd think its probably a higher standard of
refereeing in the women's CL actually.
The point I am trying to make is that while managing players,
speed and intensity of the game and media scrutiny might present
more of a challenge in the men's game than women's, from a
purely technical perspective the refereeing skills should
translate across quite well.
With all that said I have to question why Frappart isn't
appointed more in the CL, if she indeed attends EURO. I have no
problem if they consider her to have enough experience for EURO
but then one would expect her to have a similar level of CL
appointments to the other referees attending. Of course maybe
she'll get a semi final and I'll have egg on my face!
Your last point I wholeheartedly echo. I don't think these are
conversations we should shy away from. I think anyone reasonable
wants the same thing - for referees no matter male or female to
have an equal chance and a clear route to refereeing at the top
level in the men's or women's game based on merit. While some of
us might have different ideas about how to achieve that
ambition, I think it is important to keep in mind I think most
of us would share a common goal in this regard.
#Post#: 29197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: ajb95
Date: March 31, 2021, 2:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=2298.msg29190#msg29190
date=1617206636]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=2298.msg29188#msg29188
date=1617204896]
> I suppose the issue is how experience in the women's game is
considered compared with experience in the men's game.
>
--- End Quote ---
That was why I chose the analogy with the men's youth leagues &
the early ELQ games as I would personally consider the top
women's game to at least be comparable to those levels. Even I
accept it's not right up there with the mens Euros etc. I'd say
she did 10 years of games at a level comparable with the lower
levels men's matches that would be covered by groups 2 & 3 in
the main.
I'm pretty sure if Rebecca did look in on RTR & I have no idea
if she does or doesn't she'd be delighted we are discussing it
calmly, rationally and respectfully.
[/quote]
I think another point is that an elite UEFA referee in a women's
CL or men's CL match will be expected to show the same level in
terms of technical performance. While obviously this might be
more challenging in the men's CL I would agree with your point
that it is certainly as difficult in the women's CL as in men's
UEFA youth leagues, I'd think its probably a higher standard of
refereeing in the women's CL actually.
The point I am trying to make is that while managing players,
speed and intensity of the game and media scrutiny might present
more of a challenge in the men's game than women's, from a
purely technical perspective the refereeing skills should
translate across quite well.
With all that said I have to question why Frappart isn't
appointed more in the CL, if she indeed attends EURO. I have no
problem if they consider her to have enough experience for EURO
but then one would expect her to have a similar level of CL
appointments to the other referees attending. Of course maybe
she'll get a semi final and I'll have egg on my face!
Your last point I wholeheartedly echo. I don't think these are
conversations we should shy away from. I think anyone reasonable
wants the same thing - for referees no matter male or female to
have an equal chance and a clear route to refereeing at the top
level in the men's or women's game based on merit. While some of
us might have different ideas about how to achieve that
ambition, I think it is important to keep in mind I think most
of us would share a common goal in this regard.
[/quote]
I wholeheartedly agree BMB. I know my post might have come
across as disingenuous towards frappart but quite the opposite.
I feel she has been pushed into the men’s game far too fast but
will be looked upon more favourably despite not doing the same
standard of match as some of her male counterparts.
#Post#: 29198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: nemesis
Date: March 31, 2021, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> It's always good when someone gets a chance to prove
themselves at a higher level than their current grade and
Rebecca Welch is to be congratulated for receiving this
opportunity. She must have the best marks of the cadre of 2A
referees, I can't think of any other explanation.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Her performances in what amount to half a season's worth of
National League games must indeed have been absolutely
exceptional. I can think of some very decent referees who have
taken four years or more to progress through that level.
#Post#: 29203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: TVOS
Date: March 31, 2021, 4:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=TVOS link=topic=2298.msg29182#msg29182
date=1617201890]
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=2298.msg29173#msg29173
date=1617196559]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=2298.msg29171#msg29171
date=1617195262]
> In her remarks she referred to other female match officials as
" girls "; I am quite unsure of the correct protocol in this
area now but presumably it's OK for a woman to use that term but
if a man had, I think he would, quite rightly, be severely
criticised.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very common with women, especially those in a close knit group,
so I'd not read anything into it. Bit like you men using the
term lads I guess. Outside of covid times, I'll lunch with the
girls, go drinking with the girls, cheer my girls on in their
respective careers and lives etc. The girls can range from young
ladies in their 20's to not so young girls in their 70's -
they're still the girls.
[/quote]
I'm 52, but when we are able to, I'll be going out with "the
lads".
My other half has just told me she's "meeting up with the girls"
tomorrow (only 6 of them of course). They were last "girls", in
the truest sense of the word, when they left school in 1985!
Anyone who makes an issue of such terminology in Rebecca Welch's
case needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
[/quote]
I take it that the counsel "to take a long hard look at
themselves" is directed at me. If anyone thought there was a
subtext in my earlier post I apologise; it was simply a genuine
enquiry as to the proper protocols of terminology. Ms Welch may
of course refer to her fellow match officials, be they male or
female, in what ever way she likes within the bounds of courtesy
as indeed she most clearly did in her interview in which she
came over as a dedicated professional.
Might I respectfully suggest that some serious mirror gazing be
undertaken in order to differentiate between a genuine enquiry
and making an issue. I shall continue to receive admonition to
undertake self examination from sources I choose.
[/quote]
No, sorry, it wasn't directed at you; you've got the wrong end
of the stick. It was meant to pre-empt the sorts of comments
that might come out from the easily offended on social media and
the like.
#Post#: 29205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: March 31, 2021, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TVOS link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=2298.msg29185#msg29185
date=1617204317]
> [quote author=TVOS link=topic=2298.msg29182#msg29182
date=1617201890]
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=2298.msg29173#msg29173
date=1617196559]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=2298.msg29171#msg29171
date=1617195262]
> In her remarks she referred to other female match officials as
" girls "; I am quite unsure of the correct protocol in this
area now but presumably it's OK for a woman to use that term but
if a man had, I think he would, quite rightly, be severely
criticised.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very common with women, especially those in a close knit group,
so I'd not read anything into it. Bit like you men using the
term lads I guess. Outside of covid times, I'll lunch with the
girls, go drinking with the girls, cheer my girls on in their
respective careers and lives etc. The girls can range from young
ladies in their 20's to not so young girls in their 70's -
they're still the girls.
[/quote]
I'm 52, but when we are able to, I'll be going out with "the
lads".
My other half has just told me she's "meeting up with the girls"
tomorrow (only 6 of them of course). They were last "girls", in
the truest sense of the word, when they left school in 1985!
Anyone who makes an issue of such terminology in Rebecca Welch's
case needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
[/quote]
I take it that the counsel "to take a long hard look at
themselves" is directed at me. If anyone thought there was a
subtext in my earlier post I apologise; it was simply a genuine
enquiry as to the proper protocols of terminology. Ms Welch may
of course refer to her fellow match officials, be they male or
female, in what ever way she likes within the bounds of courtesy
as indeed she most clearly did in her interview in which she
came over as a dedicated professional.
Might I respectfully suggest that some serious mirror gazing be
undertaken in order to differentiate between a genuine enquiry
and making an issue. I shall continue to receive admonition to
undertake self examination from sources I choose.
[/quote]
No, sorry, it wasn't directed at you; you've got the wrong end
of the stick. It was meant to pre-empt the sorts of comments
that might come out from the easily offended on social media and
the like.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for explaining TVOS, I am grateful to you:
my error evidently. These days, I barely see the stick at times,
let alone grasp the wrong end of it ! :-[
#Post#: 29312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: Mackem ref
Date: April 4, 2021, 1:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So here we are on the eve of this historic occasion, and this
morning also marked Mackem ref's return to the middle after the
latest enforced break. As I was running, I found myself in the
centre circle (something I try really hard, although not very
successfully!) to avoid. As I was there, I remembered a match
about 6/7 years ago where my positioning was very central and I
received this advice from my mentor on the day:
Imagine the cente circle is like a snake pit. You don't want to
ever go into it, but if you do, you sure as hell want to get out
of it as fast as you can.
The mentor - none other than Ms Rebecca Welch. I really hope all
goes well for you tomorrow Rebecca - it's a shame in the 21st
century that this appointment needs so much fanfare, but I'm
confident that in 10-15 years time it will be so commonplace
that nobody would need to mention it!
#Post#: 29314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rebecca Welch becomes first female referee to be appointed
to EFL game.
DIR By: JCFC
Date: April 4, 2021, 2:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Without in any way disparaging Ms Welch's achievements, I do not
recall quite so much attention being paid in 2017 when Lorraine
Watson made her Scottish League debut.
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