DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 28639--------------------------------------------------
Re: C PAWSON - Wolves v Liverpool
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: March 16, 2021, 5:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> I've not seen this one but, re Patricio injury, there seemed
to be some criticism on the Beeb website that it resulted from a
late flag for offside when the offside was clear for all to see
and the flag could have come a lot earlier. I do not think this
was a criticism of the ref or relevant AR, more of the current
system for calling off-sides when VAR is in operation. A case
perhaps of damned if you do and damned if you don't?
>
--- End Quote ---
This has been an accident waiting to happen since the
instruction not to raise the flag until after the event when VAR
is in operation. Part of my pre-match for a long time has been
to instruct assistants to give me a late flag unless the only
player who can possibly play the ball is offside and bearing
down on a goalkeeper in which case I want the earliest possible
flag to avoid an unnecessary collision. This is not an unusual
instruction. We have it drummed into us that player safety is
paramount but the current instruction when VAR is in operation
doesn't reflect that. This was an avoidable injury.
#Post#: 28640--------------------------------------------------
Re: C PAWSON - Wolves v Liverpool
DIR By: robbie_scouse
Date: March 16, 2021, 6:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dave26 link ---
>
> The injury occurred 87 mins play didn’t restart till 100th
minute then surely the 3 minutes prior to the 90 minute mark and
the 7 additional minutes being shown should be added ?
Especially as it took exactly 13 mins from play halted to
patricio leaving the field
>
--- End Quote ---
As I said above, the 7 minutes minutes accounted for the period
87-90...there was nothing that had occurred from 46 -87 that
would have justified 7 additional minutes (relatively anyway,
obviously there is the argument that not enough stoppage time is
played in general!)
To use an extreme example, if a player is badly injured in
minute 1 and doesn't leave the field of play until minute 45
then an additional 44 minutes would be indicated. Using your
interpretation, in this scenario you would expect an additional
88 minutes to be played (the 44 minutes from minute 1-45 PLUS 44
minutes stoppage time).
#Post#: 28643--------------------------------------------------
Re: C PAWSON - Wolves v Liverpool
DIR By: Leggy
Date: March 16, 2021, 6:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=2261.msg28636#msg28636
date=1615889965]
> I've not seen this one but, re Patricio injury, there seemed
to be some criticism on the Beeb website that it resulted from a
late flag for offside when the offside was clear for all to see
and the flag could have come a lot earlier. I do not think this
was a criticism of the ref or relevant AR, more of the current
system for calling off-sides when VAR is in operation. A case
perhaps of damned if you do and damned if you don't?
>
--- End Quote ---
This has been an accident waiting to happen since the
instruction not to raise the flag until after the event when VAR
is in operation. Part of my pre-match for a long time has been
to instruct assistants to give me a late flag unless the only
player who can possibly play the ball is offside and bearing
down on a goalkeeper in which case I want the earliest possible
flag to avoid an unnecessary collision. This is not an unusual
instruction. We have it drummed into us that player safety is
paramount but the current instruction when VAR is in operation
doesn't reflect that. This was an avoidable injury.
[/quote]
It is an accident waiting to happen, but - looking at the game -
I am not sure last night was it. The time gap was very short
and we cannot be certain that Conor Coady would have been able
to avoid the collision with his goal-keeper had the AR flagged
as soon as the offence occurred. He might have, he might not.
This is, however, a risk based judgement - one that takes place
in many fields of business and government. One the one hand you
have the desire to avoid an incorrect offside, as that cannot be
rectified with VAR (unlike an incorrect non-offside). On the
other hand you have the increased risk of injury during the
period of the game where - but for VAR - the flag would have
been raised and the whistle blown.
How many correct offsides justifies one serious injury? (If
you think this is a daft question to ask, it is exactly the
process that local councils undertake when considering the costs
of putting in pedestrian crossings, employing school crossing
attendants, etc. There is a cost .v. injury / death formula).
#Post#: 28650--------------------------------------------------
Re: C PAWSON - Wolves v Liverpool
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 16, 2021, 7:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=2261.msg28636#msg28636
date=1615889965]
> I've not seen this one but, re Patricio injury, there seemed
to be some criticism on the Beeb website that it resulted from a
late flag for offside when the offside was clear for all to see
and the flag could have come a lot earlier. I do not think this
was a criticism of the ref or relevant AR, more of the current
system for calling off-sides when VAR is in operation. A case
perhaps of damned if you do and damned if you don't?
>
--- End Quote ---
This has been an accident waiting to happen since the
instruction not to raise the flag until after the event when VAR
is in operation. Part of my pre-match for a long time has been
to instruct assistants to give me a late flag unless the only
player who can possibly play the ball is offside and bearing
down on a goalkeeper in which case I want the earliest possible
flag to avoid an unnecessary collision. This is not an unusual
instruction. We have it drummed into us that player safety is
paramount but the current instruction when VAR is in operation
doesn't reflect that. This was an avoidable injury.
[/quote]
How much more likely is an offside player to collide with a
goalkeeper than an outfield player? What if the assistant misses
the offside? Does that make the injury avoidable or unavoidable?
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=2261.msg28639#msg28639
date=1615892313]
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=2261.msg28636#msg28636
date=1615889965]
> I've not seen this one but, re Patricio injury, there seemed
to be some criticism on the Beeb website that it resulted from a
late flag for offside when the offside was clear for all to see
and the flag could have come a lot earlier. I do not think this
was a criticism of the ref or relevant AR, more of the current
system for calling off-sides when VAR is in operation. A case
perhaps of damned if you do and damned if you don't?
>
--- End Quote ---
This has been an accident waiting to happen since the
instruction not to raise the flag until after the event when VAR
is in operation. Part of my pre-match for a long time has been
to instruct assistants to give me a late flag unless the only
player who can possibly play the ball is offside and bearing
down on a goalkeeper in which case I want the earliest possible
flag to avoid an unnecessary collision. This is not an unusual
instruction. We have it drummed into us that player safety is
paramount but the current instruction when VAR is in operation
doesn't reflect that. This was an avoidable injury.
[/quote]
It is an accident waiting to happen, but - looking at the game -
I am not sure last night was it. The time gap was very short
and we cannot be certain that Conor Coady would have been able
to avoid the collision with his goal-keeper had the AR flagged
as soon as the offence occurred. He might have, he might not.
This is, however, a risk based judgement - one that takes place
in many fields of business and government. One the one hand you
have the desire to avoid an incorrect offside, as that cannot be
rectified with VAR (unlike an incorrect non-offside). On the
other hand you have the increased risk of injury during the
period of the game where - but for VAR - the flag would have
been raised and the whistle blown.
How many correct offsides justifies one serious injury? (If
you think this is a daft question to ask, it is exactly the
process that local councils undertake when considering the costs
of putting in pedestrian crossings, employing school crossing
attendants, etc. There is a cost .v. injury / death formula).
[/quote]
Excellent post. As you say, society is constantly trying to find
such a balance - the current situation with Covid is a case in
point!
Let's remember too that the common narrative amongst football
fans/media is 'players shouldn't be booked for jumping into the
crowd - they're just showing passion!' I'd suggest that's just
as likely to result in injury over time.
I've not really seen a 'better' way of running the offside
protocol with VAR, and I'm not convinced that injuries can be so
easily categorised into avoidable and unavoidable. (what happens
if it occurs in training? Or if the players stay out for extra
training after the main session? At one point, do we decide they
didn't really need to be playing football at that precise
point?) As I've mentioned, offside in VAR games is likely to
become semi-automated within the next few years so decisions
will be able to be made much quicker again.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 2
DIR Previous Page