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#Post#: 27838--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: March 1, 2021, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: justalino link ---
>
> Whilst I agree entirely that this was a balls up of fairly
epic proportions for that level, what really got my goat was the
interview with Brighton Captain Lewis Dunk after the game, where
he basically destroyed Mason for 'costing them a point'.
>
> Last week they played Crystal Palace, had 75% possession, 25
shots on goal and lost 1-0.
>
> The week before they played Aston Villa, had 26 shots and drew
0-0.
>
> Lee missed none of those chances as far as I'm aware.
>
> The media perception, once again, turns to the referee as the
fall guy, one pundit even stating if Brighton go down by a point
then Lee Mason will have 'important questions to answer'.
>
> This was a **** up, no doubt about that, but if Brighton go
down it's because of their performance in this and 37 other
games, not because Lee blew his whistle twice.
>
--- End Quote ---
I found the attitudes of the Lewis Dunk and Owen Farrell after
the weekend games very interesting. In the football world Lewis
Dunk couldn't wait to blame someone else after his team's
defeat. Meanwhile in the rugby world Owen Farrell, despite what
I felt was outrageous goading by Sonja McLaughlin, absolutely
refused to criticise Pascal Gauzere for his team's defeat and
tried to concentrate on his own team's failings.
And I do appreciate that it has been reported that Sonja
McLaughlin has been the subject of abuse on social media for her
interview. I am not aware of the content of it but any abuse is
abhorrent and completely unacceptable. Criticism is entirely
different.
#Post#: 27848--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: Beryl
Date: March 1, 2021, 12:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=justalino link=topic=2215.msg27805#msg27805
date=1614590375]
> Whilst I agree entirely that this was a balls up of fairly
epic proportions for that level, what really got my goat was the
interview with Brighton Captain Lewis Dunk after the game, where
he basically destroyed Mason for 'costing them a point'.
>
> Last week they played Crystal Palace, had 75% possession, 25
shots on goal and lost 1-0.
>
> The week before they played Aston Villa, had 26 shots and drew
0-0.
>
> Lee missed none of those chances as far as I'm aware.
>
> The media perception, once again, turns to the referee as the
fall guy, one pundit even stating if Brighton go down by a point
then Lee Mason will have 'important questions to answer'.
>
> This was a **** up, no doubt about that, but if Brighton go
down it's because of their performance in this and 37 other
games, not because Lee blew his whistle twice.
>
--- End Quote ---
I found the attitudes of the Lewis Dunk and Owen Farrell after
the weekend games very interesting. In the football world Lewis
Dunk couldn't wait to blame someone else after his team's
defeat. Meanwhile in the rugby world Owen Farrell, despite what
I felt was outrageous goading by Sonja McLaughlin, absolutely
refused to criticise Pascal Gauzere for his team's defeat and
tried to concentrate on his own team's failings.
And I do appreciate that it has been reported that Sonja
McLaughlin has been the subject of abuse on social media for her
interview. I am not aware of the content of it but any abuse is
abhorrent and completely unacceptable. Criticism is entirely
different.
[/quote]
Goes without saying abuse is uncalled for
What I would say, is, say, Piers Morgan provokes interviewees,
to the extent they react, and for this, Morgan is detested
globally.
McLaughlin tried ( and failed), to provoke her subjects. Her
sole aim was to stoke fires, dangling bait, looking for a catch.
For her to fail, live on tv, with her mission, deserves
criticism, but certainly not personal abuse.
To then tweet things like, thanks, am now crying after simply
trying to do my job, invites further criticism
Her interviewing was irresponsible, and, had that been say Chris
Sutton grilling Lucy Bronze, we would be classing it as
bullying.
Heres hoping in future assignments decorum is the order of the
day
#Post#: 27854--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: guest42
Date: March 1, 2021, 1:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The questions need to be asked. It’s also valid for the players
& coaches not to answer them. I wanted to know what they thought
of the decisions. She was doing her job, and doing it very well
as always.
She’d have been criticised if she hadn’t asked those questions.
It’s part of her job and I hate to say if she wasn’t a women she
wouldn’t have had the abuse she’s had. She’s one of the best
presenters for BBC Rugby. Owen Farrell spoke well too.
#Post#: 27855--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: Beryl
Date: March 1, 2021, 1:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BAFRA #217 link ---
>
> The questions need to be asked. It’s also valid for the
players & coaches not to answer them. I wanted to know what they
thought of the decisions. She was doing her job, and doing it
very well as always.
>
> She’d have been criticised if she hadn’t asked those
questions. It’s part of her job and I hate to say if she wasn’t
a women she wouldn’t have had the abuse she’s had. She’s one of
the best presenters for BBC Rugby. Owen Farrell spoke well too.
>
--- End Quote ---
Farrell was fantastic. For me, the interviewer was fishing for
Farrell to say something out of turn, which granted is what the
viewers want, the viewers want outrage, they want to feel and
share the players frustration,
He bites, BBC have material for a week, Farrell has a World
Rugby charge to answer.
For me, that is not good interviewing,
The interviewer failed to get the reaction that they wanted.
If they had not wanted a reaction, then it follows suit they
would not ask what they asked.
The majority do, but not every viewer is sitting there waiting
to hear the player slate the ref. I know it does nothing for
me. Anyone with a passing interest in professional sport and
not a media circus, already knows how the players must be
feeling.....
#Post#: 27857--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: Hendo
Date: March 1, 2021, 2:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SimP link ---
>
> I feel for Lee Mason, but he's made a big mistake.
>
> It's one thing for any player to ask the question on taking a
quick free-kick, but it's another for a ref to allow a free kick
to be taken & blow his whistle. The whistle is his authority,
isn't it? Can't understand that he blew his whistle without
checking, but there again, it's not in the laws that the ref has
to wait for the defending team that committed the foul to be
ready for a free kick. Surely, he's experienced enough to know
that.
>
> Maybe, it was purely a concentration issue, but he managed the
aftermath poorly. He was like a rabbit in the headlights with
changing his mind.
>
> I thought Nuno's comments were unfair, but on occasions, Mason
doesn't have strong "body language" in my view & maybe, this is
what Nuno meant. He does seem to have a problem with "selling"
his decisions to the players & keeping them on-side. Under
pressure, he seems to lack confidence & get flustered & at the
top level, this is below par.
>
> Despite the pressures they face, they have to accept pressure
& tough calls.
>
> I think he's a decent ref who's solid rather than stellar & I
hope that he's not hung out to dry by management. It would be
good for him that he does more PL games so he can retire with
dignity at the end of the season rather than be "hounded out".
He is 49.
>
> Maybe, this is a problem with refs staying on beyond 48 as
opposed to "being retired" at 48 like Durkin, Winter et al. Is
this the refs making these decisions or PGMOL management? I
think it holds back young talent as the experienced refs will
always be favoured over the youngsters.
>
> Brighton need to look at themselves before they can criticise
other people for their own failings.
>
--- End Quote ---
You hit the nail on the head when you talk about Mason getting a
few games more and then retiring with dignity. The problem, as
has been said many times on here, is that the PGMOL contracts
are such that those in charge cannot sack anyone otherwise it
would be deemed unfair dismissal. Whoever drew up the original
contracts really messed up.
Mason might do the decent thing, realise he is past his best and
step down....but I bet he won’t. PL refs are on good money and,
with no real powers to get rid of them, they could continue ad
Infinitum if they wished.
Put it this way, if you realised you were not performing well
but could still pull in a decent wage in a game you loved and
nobody could really stop you what would you do? No brainer.
Roger East went on until mid 50s, again far too long in my
opinion. Sadly, unless he has a great crisis of conscience, I
can see Mason sticking around for a few more years yet, knowing
that his bosses cannot do much about it. Sad but that’s the
reality we are faced with I fear.
#Post#: 27858--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: March 1, 2021, 2:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hendo link ---
>
> [quote author=SimP link=topic=2215.msg27832#msg27832
date=1614612654]
> I feel for Lee Mason, but he's made a big mistake.
>
> It's one thing for any player to ask the question on taking a
quick free-kick, but it's another for a ref to allow a free kick
to be taken & blow his whistle. The whistle is his authority,
isn't it? Can't understand that he blew his whistle without
checking, but there again, it's not in the laws that the ref has
to wait for the defending team that committed the foul to be
ready for a free kick. Surely, he's experienced enough to know
that.
>
> Maybe, it was purely a concentration issue, but he managed the
aftermath poorly. He was like a rabbit in the headlights with
changing his mind.
>
> I thought Nuno's comments were unfair, but on occasions, Mason
doesn't have strong "body language" in my view & maybe, this is
what Nuno meant. He does seem to have a problem with "selling"
his decisions to the players & keeping them on-side. Under
pressure, he seems to lack confidence & get flustered & at the
top level, this is below par.
>
> Despite the pressures they face, they have to accept pressure
& tough calls.
>
> I think he's a decent ref who's solid rather than stellar & I
hope that he's not hung out to dry by management. It would be
good for him that he does more PL games so he can retire with
dignity at the end of the season rather than be "hounded out".
He is 49.
>
> Maybe, this is a problem with refs staying on beyond 48 as
opposed to "being retired" at 48 like Durkin, Winter et al. Is
this the refs making these decisions or PGMOL management? I
think it holds back young talent as the experienced refs will
always be favoured over the youngsters.
>
> Brighton need to look at themselves before they can criticise
other people for their own failings.
>
--- End Quote ---
You hit the nail on the head when you talk about Mason getting a
few games more and then retiring with dignity. The problem, as
has been said many times on here, is that the PGMOL contracts
are such that those in charge cannot sack anyone otherwise it
would be deemed unfair dismissal. Whoever drew up the original
contracts really messed up.
Mason might do the decent thing, realise he is past his best and
step down....but I bet he won’t. PL refs are on good money and,
with no real powers to get rid of them, they could continue ad
Infinitum if they wished.
Put it this way, if you realised you were not performing well
but could still pull in a decent wage in a game you loved and
nobody could really stop you what would you do? No brainer.
Roger East went on until mid 50s, again far too long in my
opinion. Sadly, unless he has a great crisis of conscience, I
can see Mason sticking around for a few more years yet, knowing
that his bosses cannot do much about it. Sad but that’s the
reality we are faced with I fear.
[/quote]
Grandad Walton started the firing pistol for all this IIRC.
#Post#: 27859--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: ajb95
Date: March 1, 2021, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
To me, the simple thing would be to rewrite the contracts. When
you reach 50, then you get +1 years where certain criteria must
be met including performance and fitness. If you average or
below, then the employers that be have the right to remove you.
#Post#: 27863--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 1, 2021, 3:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> To me, the simple thing would be to rewrite the contracts.
When you reach 50, then you get +1 years where certain criteria
must be met including performance and fitness. If you average or
below, then the employers that be have the right to remove you.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not that simple. You can't just decide to rewrite
contracts without falling foul of the law. The employee has to
agree to accept the new contract and there's not a whole the
PGMOL could do if they tried and a ref said nope happy with the
contact I have thank you very much and if you don't like it
that's ok I'll see you at the tribunal. They had a great
opportunity to re-write the contracts when the SG2 was formed -
it was a change in the make up of the 'business' and all
contracts could have easily and legitimately been re-written,
they failed to do so! Everywhere else has had the common sense
not to offer open ended contracts with very little in terms of
get out clauses, they are all fixed term with no guarantee of
renewal, performance criteria to meet for a renewal to be
offered etc. A couple of years ago Hungary sacked a ref mid
season, Gergely Szőts, after far too many below 7.9
performances and completely losing control in 1 match that ended
up with a mass brawl between both sets of players and benches,
during which 1 manger was pushed to the ground and both the 4O
and 1 AAR were pushed several times, the 4O was also knocked
over. The ref was sacked on the spot, as a professional referee
at least. He has continued at a lower level.
#Post#: 27867--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: March 1, 2021, 4:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Considering there are innumerable posts now in referee
development, coaching and observing I would have thought that
was the carrot to help move Mason on if that is what the
authorities wished to do. For some time now I have thought that
Mason does not look like he is enjoying his refereeing; of
course that may be a false impression and he is still wildly
enthusiastic and delighted to be officiating but at West Brom he
looked a picture of flustered misery. By pretty common consent,
he isn't regarded as one of the strongest SG1 performers and
it's not good for anyone's self respect to continue in high
profile work when you know that you are not really 'cutting the
mustard' I believe the expression used is "nicking the money"
and I would hate to have that said about me as I imagine would
many except the most cynical.
#Post#: 27876--------------------------------------------------
Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
DIR By: Leggy
Date: March 2, 2021, 2:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> Considering there are innumerable posts now in referee
development, coaching and observing I would have thought that
was the carrot to help move Mason on if that is what the
authorities wished to do. For some time now I have thought that
Mason does not look like he is enjoying his refereeing; of
course that may be a false impression and he is still wildly
enthusiastic and delighted to be officiating but at West Brom he
looked a picture of flustered misery. By pretty common consent,
he isn't regarded as one of the strongest SG1 performers and
it's not good for anyone's self respect to continue in high
profile work when you know that you are not really 'cutting the
mustard' I believe the expression used is "nicking the money"
and I would hate to have that said about me as I imagine would
many except the most cynical.
>
--- End Quote ---
To quote Whistleblower: "Considering there are innumerable
posts now in referee development, coaching and observing" - it
does beg the question as to whether the footballing authorities
are getting a fair return on this investment? Is the standard
that much better than 30 years ago when the majority of these
roles either did not exist, or were carried out on a voluntary
basis?
The proliferation of such roles (along with the Country FA
equivalents) does, of course, provide a ready made supply of
"boys" from which it would appear a fair proportion of the
senior refereeing "jobs" are found ;)
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