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#Post#: 27268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: Arbitre anglais
Date: February 21, 2021, 6:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scally Bob link ---
>
> How do you work that out? Calvert-Lewin didn’t have control of
the ball and there was a defender behind Alisson. He tripped
over Alexander-Arnold and it wasn’t even a foul.
>
> An atrocious decision magnified by the fact that all concerned
had adequate opportunity to correct it.
>
--- End Quote ---
He doesn’t have to have ‘control of the ball’. In theory the
ball could be 50 yards away. The only question is if he is
fouled / impeded.
#Post#: 27270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 21, 2021, 6:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> What is the protocol here? Does the VAR suggest to the referee
that they consult the pitch side monitor but the referee is in
no way obliged to act on the suggestion ? I suspect that in
this case Kavanagh was quite clear as to what he had seen and
was entirely comfortable in his award of a penalty kick. His VAR
is a very experienced and well regarded referee, far more
experienced than Kavanagh and therefore in due deference to his
colleague, Kavanagh does take up the invitation to view the
monitor whilst still being pretty sure about the rightness of
his decision. A viewing of the monitor then confirms his view.
If this is the scenario, rather than showing arrogance I think
Kavanagh comes out of this rather well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to agree Whistleblower. It’s refreshing to see that an
official despite Big Brother interfering only took seconds to
look at it and immediately stuck with his on field decision.
In my eye it shows confidence on a high level, which is notable
in the excellent performances he’s produced recently.
I would say he’s possibly number 3 in the pecking order behind
Oliver and Taylor.
#Post#: 27272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: February 21, 2021, 6:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=2192.msg27266#msg27266
date=1613906713]
> What is the protocol here? Does the VAR suggest to the referee
that they consult the pitch side monitor but the referee is in
no way obliged to act on the suggestion ? I suspect that in
this case Kavanagh was quite clear as to what he had seen and
was entirely comfortable in his award of a penalty kick. His VAR
is a very experienced and well regarded referee, far more
experienced than Kavanagh and therefore in due deference to his
colleague, Kavanagh does take up the invitation to view the
monitor whilst still being pretty sure about the rightness of
his decision. A viewing of the monitor then confirms his view.
If this is the scenario, rather than showing arrogance I think
Kavanagh comes out of this rather well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to agree Whistleblower. It’s refreshing to see that an
official despite Big Brother interfering only took seconds to
look at it and immediately stuck with his on field decision.
In my eye it shows confidence on a high level, which is notable
in the excellent performances he’s produced recently.
I would say he’s possibly number 3 in the pecking order behind
Oliver and Taylor.
[/quote]
I agree, Kavanagh has been performing very well of late. I
thought towards the end of last season his form had dipped and
he had some bad performances in Europe but he seems to be back
refereeing very well at the moment.
UEFA I think clearly plan for him to be the next elite so he
will overtake Pawson who I've said before I think will have a
similar trajectory to Marriner (probably at a slightly higher
level of appointments) within UEFA. I think he is seen as solid
first group but no more IMO. For Kavanagh assuming he carries
his domestic form into Europe I think he will be elite within a
few seasons at most.
#Post#: 27276--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: sastley
Date: February 21, 2021, 7:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Levref link ---
>
> There obviously speaks a Liverpool supporter!! I do not
support either team, just a neutral seeing as it is.
>
--- End Quote ---
If you are referirng to my comment, I am most definitely not a
supporter of either team and like you neutral.
#Post#: 27280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: February 21, 2021, 8:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> It's really interesting how different people can look at the
same incident, several times, and with varying degrees of
certainty come to totally opposite conclusions. This goes for TV
pundits, RTR correspondents, everyone I suppose. Here's my
twopennyworth from having seen it on Match of the Day. I think
it is by no means clear cut either way but I tend to the view
that awarding a penalty kick was not wrong. I think VAR was
quite justified in asking Kavanagh to review his decision on the
monitor because there may have been some uncertainty in the mind
of the VAR also. Kavanagh goes over to the monitor and his
viewing confirms what he saw and in his opinion it is a penalty
kick. I don't see why he needed to spend ages viewing and
re-viewing the incident once he was assured that his original
decision was correct. Also I see no trace of arrogance in the
way Kavanagh conducted himself, rather an efficient way of
referee and VAR working.
>
--- End Quote ---
I must admit that I thought the protocol was that VAR only
advised the referee to look at the monitor if he felt there had
been a clear and obvious error, or has that changed? If it
still applies, I would have assumed the referee was duty bound
to consult the monitor, and it was based on this I felt
Kavanagh's check was rather cursory given that a very
experienced colleague believed he'd got it wrong. Of course, if
my understanding of the protocol is incorrect, then it's a
different matter.
#Post#: 27282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: TillysDad
Date: February 21, 2021, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My first thoughts were no penalty,but after watching a few times
the is body movement which impedes DCL,so can see why it was
given
#Post#: 27283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 21, 2021, 9:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=2192.msg27266#msg27266
date=1613906713]
> What is the protocol here? Does the VAR suggest to the referee
that they consult the pitch side monitor but the referee is in
no way obliged to act on the suggestion ? I suspect that in
this case Kavanagh was quite clear as to what he had seen and
was entirely comfortable in his award of a penalty kick. His VAR
is a very experienced and well regarded referee, far more
experienced than Kavanagh and therefore in due deference to his
colleague, Kavanagh does take up the invitation to view the
monitor whilst still being pretty sure about the rightness of
his decision. A viewing of the monitor then confirms his view.
If this is the scenario, rather than showing arrogance I think
Kavanagh comes out of this rather well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to agree Whistleblower. It’s refreshing to see that an
official despite Big Brother interfering only took seconds to
look at it and immediately stuck with his on field decision.
In my eye it shows confidence on a high level, which is notable
in the excellent performances he’s produced recently.
I would say he’s possibly number 3 in the pecking order behind
Oliver and Taylor.
[/quote]
I certainly think he has that potential but I wouldn't say he
has quite overtaken Pawson yet. It seems clear to me that
Kavanagh and Tierney are the best regarded outside of Taylor,
Oliver and Pawson and of them Kavanagh just shades it over
Tierney. In the season before Kavanagh's promotion to SG1, I
was at a match with a very senior Observer/Assessor. We weren't
actually watching Kavanagh but in the general conversation we
talked about who might be the next "star" and this
Observer/Assessor said " Without a doubt Kavanagh; at the
moment, outside SG1, he is absolutely in a class of his own and
considerably better than over half of the present SG1"
#Post#: 27285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: February 21, 2021, 9:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Arbitre anglais link ---
>
> [quote author=Scally Bob link=topic=2192.msg27243#msg27243
date=1613866169]
> How do you work that out? Calvert-Lewin didn’t have control of
the ball and there was a defender behind Alisson. He tripped
over Alexander-Arnold and it wasn’t even a foul.
>
> An atrocious decision magnified by the fact that all concerned
had adequate opportunity to correct it.
>
--- End Quote ---
He doesn’t have to have ‘control of the ball’. In theory the
ball could be 50 yards away. The only question is if he is
fouled / impeded.
[/quote]
I was replying in the context of DOGSO where control of the ball
or the ability to get it under control is entirely relevant. If
the ball is 50 yards away it couldn't be DOGSO.
#Post#: 27286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 21, 2021, 9:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=2192.msg27270#msg27270 date=1613909496]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=2192.msg27266#msg27266
date=1613906713]
> What is the protocol here? Does the VAR suggest to the referee
that they consult the pitch side monitor but the referee is in
no way obliged to act on the suggestion ? I suspect that in
this case Kavanagh was quite clear as to what he had seen and
was entirely comfortable in his award of a penalty kick. His VAR
is a very experienced and well regarded referee, far more
experienced than Kavanagh and therefore in due deference to his
colleague, Kavanagh does take up the invitation to view the
monitor whilst still being pretty sure about the rightness of
his decision. A viewing of the monitor then confirms his view.
If this is the scenario, rather than showing arrogance I think
Kavanagh comes out of this rather well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to agree Whistleblower. It’s refreshing to see that an
official despite Big Brother interfering only took seconds to
look at it and immediately stuck with his on field decision.
In my eye it shows confidence on a high level, which is notable
in the excellent performances he’s produced recently.
I would say he’s possibly number 3 in the pecking order behind
Oliver and Taylor.
[/quote]
I agree, Kavanagh has been performing very well of late. I
thought towards the end of last season his form had dipped and
he had some bad performances in Europe but he seems to be back
refereeing very well at the moment.
UEFA I think clearly plan for him to be the next elite so he
will overtake Pawson who I've said before I think will have a
similar trajectory to Marriner (probably at a slightly higher
level of appointments) within UEFA. I think he is seen as solid
first group but no more IMO. For Kavanagh assuming he carries
his domestic form into Europe I think he will be elite within a
few seasons at most.
[/quote]
I think your comparison of Pawson and Marriner is a very fair
and accurate one.
#Post#: 27288--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - Liverpool v Everton
DIR By: TVOS
Date: February 21, 2021, 9:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scally Bob link ---
>
> How do you work that out? Calvert-Lewin didn’t have control of
the ball and there was a defender behind Alisson. He tripped
over Alexander-Arnold and it wasn’t even a foul.
>
> An atrocious decision magnified by the fact that all concerned
had adequate opportunity to correct it.
>
--- End Quote ---
"Atrocious"!
Really?
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