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       #Post#: 26772--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: February 12, 2021, 10:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I presume that as my last post is the one quoted immediately
       before yours, it is directed to me. For the avoidance of any
       doubt, as I hope long standing contributors to RTR might
       testify, I do not indulge in "dolling "
       #Post#: 26774--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Beryl
       Date: February 12, 2021, 11:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
       >
       > I presume that as my last post is the one quoted immediately
       before yours, it is directed to me. For the avoidance of any
       doubt, as I hope long standing contributors to RTR might
       testify, I do not indulge in "dolling "
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Nothing personal.   Purely observation on post.    Some things
       cannot be sugar coated.
       Whereas some might go,   “ we got away with one there, take care
       going forward to always be in position, “
       Some others will react differently,   There is not one size fits
       all
       If a referee is happy to be sent home due to inept positioning
       from the AR, thats great
       If a referee is not impressed by this, human nature allows for
       frustration.
       #Post#: 26783--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: February 12, 2021, 1:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Reece James is a supreme athlete and is rapid.  Yes, Sian was
       out of position but I'd defy many assistant referees keeping up
       with him at full speed.  She's just switched off for a second,
       and at that level you have no chance of catching up.  Certainly
       not a disgrace, it happens.
       At my peak I was very fast and generally had no problem of
       matching players for speed.  I realised I wasn't actually that
       fast when I was on the line for a Luton game and Andre Gray was
       playing, I'd never come across anyone even close to being that
       fast and I had zero chance of keeping up with him.  There has to
       be realisation that 30 or 40 something year old assistants have
       no chance of matching the pace of young footballers.
       #Post#: 26785--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Beryl
       Date: February 12, 2021, 2:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > Reece James is a supreme athlete and is rapid.  Yes, Sian was
       out of position but I'd defy many assistant referees keeping up
       with him at full speed.  She's just switched off for a second,
       and at that level you have no chance of catching up.  Certainly
       not a disgrace, it happens.
       >
       > At my peak I was very fast and generally had no problem of
       matching players for speed.  I realised I wasn't actually that
       fast when I was on the line for a Luton game and Andre Gray was
       playing, I'd never come across anyone even close to being that
       fast and I had zero chance of keeping up with him.  There has to
       be realisation that 30 or 40 something year old assistants have
       no chance of matching the pace of young footballers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       sorry the player is too fast for me.     Well thats ok then,
       issue solved.
       If nothing else, a bit of thinking on the feet would have sold
       the decision, ref def looks across at the goal and his AR is
       nowhere..."
       She could have, having realised she was caught, gone like the
       clappers to salvage something,
       In all my years I have never heard of, sorry he is too
       fast.....as acceptable.
       Its pro sport with pro officials, you simply must be able to
       keep up.
       As match official it is your duty to be able to keep up with
       play, its not optional.
       Edited quote marks out, your interpretation and not said by
       another poster, bmb
       #Post#: 26786--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: February 12, 2021, 2:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > Reece James is a supreme athlete and is rapid.  Yes, Sian was
       out of position but I'd defy many assistant referees keeping up
       with him at full speed.  She's just switched off for a second,
       and at that level you have no chance of catching up.  Certainly
       not a disgrace, it happens.
       >
       > At my peak I was very fast and generally had no problem of
       matching players for speed.  I realised I wasn't actually that
       fast when I was on the line for a Luton game and Andre Gray was
       playing, I'd never come across anyone even close to being that
       fast and I had zero chance of keeping up with him.  There has to
       be realisation that 30 or 40 something year old assistants have
       no chance of matching the pace of young footballers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Excellent post rustyref
       #Post#: 26788--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: February 12, 2021, 2:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Beryl link ---
       >
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2160.msg26783#msg26783
       date=1613159595]
       > Reece James is a supreme athlete and is rapid.  Yes, Sian was
       out of position but I'd defy many assistant referees keeping up
       with him at full speed.  She's just switched off for a second,
       and at that level you have no chance of catching up.  Certainly
       not a disgrace, it happens.
       >
       > At my peak I was very fast and generally had no problem of
       matching players for speed.  I realised I wasn't actually that
       fast when I was on the line for a Luton game and Andre Gray was
       playing, I'd never come across anyone even close to being that
       fast and I had zero chance of keeping up with him.  There has to
       be realisation that 30 or 40 something year old assistants have
       no chance of matching the pace of young footballers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       “ sorry the player is too fast for me”.     Well thats ok then,
       issue solved.
       If nothing else, a bit of thinking on the feet would have sold
       the decision, ref def looks across at the goal and his AR is
       nowhere..."
       She could have, having realised she was caught, gone like the
       clappers to salvage something,
       In all my years I have never heard of, sorry he is too
       fast.....as acceptable.
       Its pro sport with pro officials, you simply must be able to
       keep up.
       As match official it is your duty to be able to keep up with
       play, its not optional.
       [/quote]
       "In all my years"  I deduce two possibilities from this. Either
       you have officiated at the same level as Ms Massey-Ellis or
       indeed rustyref and therefore have first hand experience of the
       speed and intensity of such a level; I go on to wonder whether
       you have ever been caught out by a turn of speed. Or you are
       giving a counsel of perfection without first hand knowledge of
       the pressures of officiating at such a level. Perhaps you would
       care to enlighten us.
       #Post#: 26789--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: February 12, 2021, 3:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Beryl link ---
       >
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2160.msg26783#msg26783
       date=1613159595]
       > Reece James is a supreme athlete and is rapid.  Yes, Sian was
       out of position but I'd defy many assistant referees keeping up
       with him at full speed.  She's just switched off for a second,
       and at that level you have no chance of catching up.  Certainly
       not a disgrace, it happens.
       >
       > At my peak I was very fast and generally had no problem of
       matching players for speed.  I realised I wasn't actually that
       fast when I was on the line for a Luton game and Andre Gray was
       playing, I'd never come across anyone even close to being that
       fast and I had zero chance of keeping up with him.  There has to
       be realisation that 30 or 40 something year old assistants have
       no chance of matching the pace of young footballers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       “ sorry the player is too fast for me”.     Well thats ok then,
       issue solved.
       If nothing else, a bit of thinking on the feet would have sold
       the decision, ref def looks across at the goal and his AR is
       nowhere..."
       She could have, having realised she was caught, gone like the
       clappers to salvage something,
       In all my years I have never heard of, sorry he is too
       fast.....as acceptable.
       Its pro sport with pro officials, you simply must be able to
       keep up.
       As match official it is your duty to be able to keep up with
       play, its not optional.
       [/quote]
       "sorry the player is too fast for me"   I may be missing
       something but you put that in quotation marks and I don't see
       that quotation anywhere in the thread. It is therefore putting
       words into somebody's mouth and completely unacceptable.
       Moderators please note.
       #Post#: 26790--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: February 12, 2021, 3:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
       >
       > Moderators please note.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Noted & removed.  Had a few pm's saying similar.
       #Post#: 26794--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: TVOS
       Date: February 12, 2021, 3:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Beryl link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Claretman link=topic=2160.msg26767#msg26767
       date=1613144044]
       > [quote author=Beryl link=topic=2160.msg26757#msg26757
       date=1613136139]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=2160.msg26755#msg26755
       date=1613135508]
       > [quote author=Beryl link=topic=2160.msg26754#msg26754
       date=1613134948]
       > [quote author=Seagull link=topic=2160.msg26753#msg26753
       date=1613134579]
       > [quote author=Beryl link=topic=2160.msg26751#msg26751
       date=1613134219]
       > [quote author=Seagull link=topic=2160.msg26750#msg26750
       date=1613133277]
       > I didn't see the game last night but have just caught it all
       on iPlayer and read all the comments on this thread. My thoughts
       are as follows.
       >
       > Yes, Chelsea should have been awarded a penalty kick for the
       foul on Abrahams but I can see why Mr. Atkinson thought the
       defender had won the ball. At normal speed, I thought he had
       too. I'm confident VAR would have corrected that error had it
       been available.
       >
       > As for the goal, definitely not offside but I'm disappointed
       that a PL Assistant was caught so badly out of position behind
       play, especially in a game where VAR was unable to come to her
       rescue had she wrongly indicated offside. Did Mrs. Massey-Ellis
       make an excellent decision albeit from a bad position or did she
       go on a gut feeling? Short of asking her, we shall probably
       never know.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       For me, Atkinson looked across, realised she input was a waste
       of time, and had no choice but to give the goal
       Combined with her error at West brom few weeks ago, lets hope
       she returns to top form asap
       [/quote]
       Yes, he had no option but to award a goal in the absence of a
       flag. He was not in a position to judge it himself (not that I
       would expect him to be in the normal course of play) so has to
       go with the AR.
       [/quote]
       Ultimately onside was the correct call, so, no harm done other
       than a wake up call to stay alert, esp in the pen area
       [/quote]
       The fact that ARs are instructed not to flag when VAR is in use
       is probably more to blame than anything else.
       With the number of games coming thick and fast and the vast
       majority coming under the jurisdiction of VAR, I can well
       understand that a mistake would be made, especially as there was
       a PL team playing in the match.
       Had the game been at Chelsea, then VAR would have been in use,
       Chelsea may well have got the penalty in the first half and the
       goal they did score would have been allowed anyway.
       [/quote]
       Disagree 100%.    She was 5/6 yards behind play, it was nothing
       to do with or without VAR
       Regardless pf the technology, there is no, and I stress, no,
       excuse or reason for being incorrectly positioned
       That is the duty of the AR, to be in line with the second last
       defender...
       VAR or not VAR could be used as a safety net for the rectitude
       of the decision, the judgement
       Var or not VAR is irrelevant to the positioning of the AR.
       She might or might not get the call right with or without var
       Only she though can assure she is in the correct place to call
       it
       5 6 yard behind play, in the pen area, attacking move,  at 0-0
       far less any score, is inexcusable for top flight, never mind
       one of the elite of that group.
       [/quote]
       All human beings make errors no matter how good they are or at
       what level they are at and i am sure she will be gutted that her
       positioning wasnt the best in this case.
       She is not the first nor will she be the last. I am sure she
       will learn from this.
       In recent years sian has been one of the best ar’s in the
       premier league.
       [/quote]
       The AR is given one role positionally,   Stay in line with
       second last defender during open play
       To be 6 yards out, at the only goal of the game, so far out of
       position the referee looked over and was all at sea, is not
       acceptable.
       It was not even an unexpected quick break or a unexpected
       defensive error, it was a routine bog standard attack
       Got away with one, as, by chance, the goal was valid
       As referee, I would be livid in the dressing room afterwards,
       regardless of her previous ( until West Brom two weeks ago? )
       excellent performances.
       [/quote]
       So you keep saying.
       She's still human though and not prone to such errors on a
       regular basis.
       #Post#: 26795--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Martin Atkinson/Sian Massey - Barnsley v Chelsea
   DIR By: Beryl
       Date: February 12, 2021, 3:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Beryl link=topic=2160.msg26785#msg26785
       date=1613161882]
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2160.msg26783#msg26783
       date=1613159595]
       > Reece James is a supreme athlete and is rapid.  Yes, Sian was
       out of position but I'd defy many assistant referees keeping up
       with him at full speed.  She's just switched off for a second,
       and at that level you have no chance of catching up.  Certainly
       not a disgrace, it happens.
       >
       > At my peak I was very fast and generally had no problem of
       matching players for speed.  I realised I wasn't actually that
       fast when I was on the line for a Luton game and Andre Gray was
       playing, I'd never come across anyone even close to being that
       fast and I had zero chance of keeping up with him.  There has to
       be realisation that 30 or 40 something year old assistants have
       no chance of matching the pace of young footballers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       “ sorry the player is too fast for me”.     Well thats ok then,
       issue solved.
       If nothing else, a bit of thinking on the feet would have sold
       the decision, ref def looks across at the goal and his AR is
       nowhere..."
       She could have, having realised she was caught, gone like the
       clappers to salvage something,
       In all my years I have never heard of, sorry he is too
       fast.....as acceptable.
       Its pro sport with pro officials, you simply must be able to
       keep up.
       As match official it is your duty to be able to keep up with
       play, its not optional.
       [/quote]
       "sorry the player is too fast for me"   I may be missing
       something but you put that in quotation marks and I don't see
       that quotation anywhere in the thread. It is therefore putting
       words into somebody's mouth and completely unacceptable.
       Moderators please note.
       [/quote]
       Let me remove the quotation,
       Can we change it too, making allowance for error at the highest
       level because a player is too fast , is certainly something new.
       If am permitted an opinion, which might differ from others, its
       that it is not acceptable to dismiss an error based on the speed
       of a player.
       That goal was, 70 mins.....hypothetically an Ar unable to keep
       up at that point, has even less chance in the extra time period
       if required.
       The issue last night was not ability, but, positioning.
       Positioning is in our control.  Staying in line with the second
       last defender is not optional during open play.
       *****************************************************
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