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#Post#: 26565--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Leggy
Date: February 8, 2021, 6:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Red card rescinded.
Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of a
(VAR) match official"?? ;)
#Post#: 26570--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Beryl
Date: February 8, 2021, 6:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> Red card rescinded.
>
> Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of
a (VAR) match official"?? ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
Tit for tat and clutching at straws in a vain attempt to deflect
blame from the officials
If the antics fooled anybody, those fooled are entirely to
blame.
In no way in the history of the lotg can that incident be
described as violent conduct
Brutality?
Negliible force.
Inexcusable refereeing error.
#Post#: 26571--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: ajb95
Date: February 8, 2021, 6:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> Red card rescinded.
>
> Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of
a (VAR) match official"?? ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
I think we all know the answer to that!
When/who was the last person to be charged retrospectively for
deceiving a match official??
#Post#: 26572--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Leggy
Date: February 8, 2021, 7:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Beryl link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2148.msg26565#msg26565
date=1612786111]
> Red card rescinded.
>
> Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of
a (VAR) match official"?? ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
Tit for tat and clutching at straws in a vain attempt to deflect
blame from the officials
If the antics fooled anybody, those fooled are entirely to
blame.
In no way in the history of the lotg can that incident be
described as violent conduct
Brutality?
Negliible force.
Inexcusable refereeing error.
[/quote]
So the object of the game is now to fool the match officials
into awarding a decision (free-kick, penalty-kick, caution or
sending-off) that is not warranted?
And there was me naively thinking it was to use skill, tactics
and good play to score more goals than the other team.
Every professional club now teaches its players to "fake it" to
gain decisions that are not deserved. David Moyes feels it is
the job of the referee to spot this. Perhaps if the people
allegedly running the game took a hard line on this (they have
oodles of video evidence to work from) AND the clubs stopped
being to hypocritical about it, then we'd have half a chance.
I am not, however, holding my breath waiting for this to happen.
Its much easier to keep blaming the referees .......
#Post#: 26573--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: February 8, 2021, 7:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Beryl link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2148.msg26565#msg26565
date=1612786111]
> Red card rescinded.
>
> Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of
a (VAR) match official"?? ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
Tit for tat and clutching at straws in a vain attempt to deflect
blame from the officials
If the antics fooled anybody, those fooled are entirely to
blame.
In no way in the history of the lotg can that incident be
described as violent conduct
Brutality?
Negliible force.
Inexcusable refereeing error.
[/quote]
I am not justifying Mike Dean's call - he made a bad one but the
premise that if antics fooled him, that its only him to blame,
is frankly bizarre. I agree that referees have ultimate
accountability for their decisions but players must have
ultimate accountability for their actions. The player that
decides to grab his face and roll on the ground after the
slightest contact did something that was deliberate, dishonest
and IMO quite malicious really as he was trying to get a fellow
opponent sent off. What Mike Dean did was none of those things,
it was an honest mistake, however bad the mistake he made, it
was an honest human error. He intended no ill will on anyone and
wasn't looking to hurt anybody. To equate an honest mistake with
a deliberate attempt to get someone sent off is, in my view,
ridiculous.
I have to say I think this is all very over the top in terms of
the reaction, the red card came in second half stoppage time and
the card has been rescinded so the effect of the card has been
essentially nothing at all. I sincerely hope that Mike Dean is
back in the premier league soon and that the death threats his
family have received won't cause them too much harm. After 20+
years in the PL I'm sure Dean must be thinking on some level, '
is this all worth it?' and frankly, I think he deserves a lot
better than to be facing those thoughts and I hope he decides to
carry on. My best wishes to him and his family.
#Post#: 26575--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: February 8, 2021, 7:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In agreeing with you fully DublinRef, I hope the PGMOL will take
the opportunity to look at the issues raised by the rescinding
of these red cards with all the SG refs, particularly the RC at
Fulham. Contact was made and the 'victim' was entitled to show
'hurt', although not to the degree of falling to the ground as
though he had been shot. If Mason pushed Dean into issuing a red
card, he was wrong to do so. If Dean was persuaded to issue a
red card despite having a long hard look at the monitor, then he
was wrong as well, particularly if a Fulham player was trying to
tell him at the same time that the contact was accidental. If
the PGMOL are telling refs that this sort of contact warrants a
red card without question, then they are also wrong. There were
a lot of wrongs at OT and Craven Cottage, and my hope is that
both Dean and Mason will learn lessons from them with the other
SG refs, and Dean in particular resumes his place as one of the
best refs in the PL over many years.
#Post#: 26576--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 8, 2021, 7:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Beryl link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2148.msg26565#msg26565
date=1612786111]
> Red card rescinded.
>
> Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of
a (VAR) match official"?? ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
Tit for tat and clutching at straws in a vain attempt to deflect
blame from the officials
If the antics fooled anybody, those fooled are entirely to
blame.
In no way in the history of the lotg can that incident be
described as violent conduct
Brutality?
Negliible force.
Inexcusable refereeing error.
[/quote]
That is why no-one is attempting to excuse Mike Dean's decision
as, for instance my earlier posts on the subject, make
abundantly clear. " If the antics fooled anyone, those fooled
are entirely to blame" A holder of this view could have an
interesting career at the Bar seeking to defend those who fool
vulnerable people into losing thousands of pounds through scams.
" If the antics fooled anyone, those fooled are entirely to
blame ". There rests the case for the defence My Lord.
Seeking to deceive is endemic in all walks of life and
particularly in football at the moment. Or to call it for what
it is, cheating, plain and simple. Of course it is a referee's
responsibility to endeavour not to be deceived and to take
responsibility when they are, just like it is every individuals
duty to protect their and their families assets from those who
seek to deceive and cheat them out of it. However, human beings,
all of us referees or not, are fallible and the fact that
mistakes can and are made in no way absolves the perpetrator of
the deceit from any responsibility.
The football authorities have been craven and pathetic for far
too long in seeking to eliminate cheating. far easier and more
convenient just to hang the referee out to dry. It's beyond
contemptible.
#Post#: 26577--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Beryl
Date: February 8, 2021, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=Beryl link=topic=2148.msg26570#msg26570
date=1612788663]
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2148.msg26565#msg26565
date=1612786111]
> Red card rescinded.
>
> Will the "victim" now be charged with "successful deception of
a (VAR) match official"?? ;)
>
--- End Quote ---
Tit for tat and clutching at straws in a vain attempt to deflect
blame from the officials
If the antics fooled anybody, those fooled are entirely to
blame.
In no way in the history of the lotg can that incident be
described as violent conduct
Brutality?
Negliible force.
Inexcusable refereeing error.
[/quote]
That is why no-one is attempting to excuse Mike Dean's decision
as, for instance my earlier posts on the subject, make
abundantly clear. " If the antics fooled anyone, those fooled
are entirely to blame" A holder of this view could have an
interesting career at the Bar seeking to defend those who fool
vulnerable people into losing thousands of pounds through scams.
" If the antics fooled anyone, those fooled are entirely to
blame ". There rests the case for the defence My Lord.
Seeking to deceive is endemic in all walks of life and
particularly in football at the moment. Or to call it for what
it is, cheating, plain and simple. Of course it is a referee's
responsibility to endeavour not to be deceived and to take
responsibility when they are, just like it is every individuals
duty to protect their and their families assets from those who
seek to deceive and cheat them out of it. However, human beings,
all of us referees or not, are fallible and the fact that
mistakes can and are made in no way absolves the perpetrator of
the deceit from any responsibility.
The football authorities have been craven and pathetic for far
too long in seeking to eliminate cheating. far easier and more
convenient just to hang the referee out to dry. It's beyond
contemptible.
[/quote]
There appears to be just two people on earth who see a red card
there.
The criteria for vc is clear. Brutality. And, neglible
force.
Dont matter if you been refereeing for two minutes or twenty
years. To get the opportunity to view the incident ten times
and cone to the conclusion that there was an act of brutality,
is astonishing
Nowhere Am I passing comment on the referees distinguished
career or his future involvment, merely passing comment on a
point of play in a game.
Nothing of that incident was violent conduct. If Mr Dean or Mr
Mason considered it to br violent, they need a refresher in the
laws of the game.
#Post#: 26579--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: JCFC
Date: February 8, 2021, 8:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
>
>
> I am not justifying Mike Dean's call - he made a bad one but
the premise that if antics fooled him, that its only him to
blame, is frankly bizarre. I agree that referees have ultimate
accountability for their decisions but players must have
ultimate accountability for their actions. The player that
decides to grab his face and roll on the ground after the
slightest contact did something that was deliberate, dishonest
and IMO quite malicious really as he was trying to get a fellow
opponent sent off. What Mike Dean did was none of those things,
it was an honest mistake, however bad the mistake he made, it
was an honest human error. He intended no ill will on anyone and
wasn't looking to hurt anybody. To equate an honest mistake with
a deliberate attempt to get someone sent off is, in my view,
ridiculous.
>
> I have to say I think this is all very over the top in terms
of the reaction, the red card came in second half stoppage time
and the card has been rescinded so the effect of the card has
been essentially nothing at all. I sincerely hope that Mike Dean
is back in the premier league soon and that the death threats
his family have received won't cause them too much harm. After
20+ years in the PL I'm sure Dean must be thinking on some
level, ' is this all worth it?' and frankly, I think he deserves
a lot better than to be facing those thoughts and I hope he
decides to carry on. My best wishes to him and his family.
>
--- End Quote ---
Since he joined the site, I have formed a high opinion of
DublinRef's posts: perceptive, mature, well-reasoned and clearly
expressed, without being in any way sanctimonious. This one, a
model of the genre, merely serves to reinforce my admiration.
#Post#: 26583--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Ivanhoe
Date: February 8, 2021, 8:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To have the benefit of VAR and to come to that decision then I'm
afraid it all lies with Mike Dean. The one thing you can say
about him is he has never been afraid to make a decision,
however controversial so he's made this one and it was plain
wrong.
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