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#Post#: 26484--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Claretman
Date: February 6, 2021, 4:43 pm
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Whilst holding and grappling is allowed to go unpunished you
will always have incidents like todays.
I would imagine from the pictures mike dean looked at, his first
question would be why has soucek got his arm out stretched and
his elbow in this position. Was He not standing still rather
than jumping. If he were jumping would
You not expect both arms to be raised?
Was there contact and does there have to be contact? Ie
attempting to.....
Nowadays i am not sure what a red card offence is.
In mason and deans opinions it was a red card offence but other
referees may differ in opinion.
also anthony taylor was sent to review area in the villa v
palace he awarded a corner but var ( pawson i think ) suggested
it was a penalty. Taylor after watching the screen stuck to his
deciaion of corner.
#Post#: 26487--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Irishref1985
Date: February 6, 2021, 7:08 pm
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First Graham Scott makes a laughing stock of Mike Dean and now
Lee Mason becomes the second referee in the matter of days. Dean
is looking straight at the incident when it happens and he
decides to take no action. What do Scott and Mason have in
common? Neither should be officiating in the Premier League in
my opinion. Just not up to it..
#Post#: 26490--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 7, 2021, 3:34 am
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--- Quote from: Irishref1985 link ---
>
> First Graham Scott makes a laughing stock of Mike Dean and now
Lee Mason becomes the second referee in the matter of days. Dean
is looking straight at the incident when it happens and he
decides to take no action. What do Scott and Mason have in
common? Neither should be officiating in the Premier League in
my opinion. Just not up to it..
>
--- End Quote ---
And here lies the probem... who replaces them?
SG2 is full of dross and quite frankly I don’t think anyone
apart from 1/2 at that level is currently capable of replacing
them immediately.
Going further down the line, I feel they’ll be a major problem
in 2/3 years time when the likes of Atkinson, Marriner, Dean,
Scott, Moss and Friend have retired.
#Post#: 26492--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Mackem ref
Date: February 7, 2021, 3:51 am
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I agree SG2 isn’t blessed with talent, but I also think the
development of officials is pretty poor in this country. Refs
often get only 1 trial game - what will that achieve!?! If it
goes well, great, but if it goes badly does that mean you’ve
blown your chance of promotion despite a good season all because
of 1 game!?! It seems a pretty irresponsible model to offer (and
therefore be handcuffed with laws making demotion incredibly
difficult) a full time contract after one game at that level.
Some refs are good lower down the pyramid but struggle to make
the step up!
In terms of the future, it is very concerning. Although refs can
carry on for as long as they wish, I don’t think that’s a
brilliant thing either. There has to come a point where certain
refs are encouraged to hang up the whistle, starting with Mason!
The next generation of SG1 officials seem to be Brooks and
Gillett looking at appointments, with Harrington also a
possibility. Beyond that, Salisbury Jnr and Doughty perhaps from
the current SG2, and possibly Barrott and Speedie from the FL
list! I also believe that using some of the steadier SG2
officials for 3/4 PL games per season would help alleviate the
pressure (like Eltringham, Linington, Bond). It can’t be good
for mental health to referee so many games whilst also
travelling to complete 4O and VAR duties all of the time. Our
top refs need a break!
#Post#: 26494--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Beryl
Date: February 7, 2021, 4:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Irishref1985 link ---
>
> First Graham Scott makes a laughing stock of Mike Dean and now
Lee Mason becomes the second referee in the matter of days. Dean
is looking straight at the incident when it happens and he
decides to take no action. What do Scott and Mason have in
common? Neither should be officiating in the Premier League in
my opinion. Just not up to it..
>
--- End Quote ---
Without VAR and the chance to review the incident, there would
be no red card yesterday
When as referees we go looking for things, we can find things
Pre VAR, Dean would have quickly touched base via comms, just to
check nothing of note happened, then, give both players a finger
pointing.
Now, with VAR, we see a punishment, and go looking for a crime.
We are out of tandem with the game. Its played by humans and
now officiated by pc.
Lets cut out the buzz words and concentrate on the law regarding
violent conduct
BRUTALITY
And
unless the force was negligible
This incident was in no means brutal, we have seen more
brutality in Lidl when two old dears fight over a till opening
And
The force was negligible
Horrendous decision, Mason for recommending review, and Dean for
applying it
#Post#: 26496--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: February 7, 2021, 5:17 am
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Just trying to play devil's advocate here
Soucek raised an arm and moved that arm toward his opponent.
My neighbour the Rugby Referee indicated that would be
sufficient for a sanction in his game.
He also said that the recipient of the "elbow" was probably more
likely to reciprocate than fall over
#Post#: 26498--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Beryl
Date: February 7, 2021, 5:29 am
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--- Quote from: PhiltheRef link ---
>
> Just trying to play devil's advocate here
> Soucek raised an arm and moved that arm toward his opponent.
> My neighbour the Rugby Referee indicated that would be
sufficient for a sanction in his game.
> He also said that the recipient of the "elbow" was probably
more likely to reciprocate than fall over
>
--- End Quote ---
What part of that fits the criteria for v/c ?
#Post#: 26499--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: LateTackle
Date: February 7, 2021, 5:47 am
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--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2148.msg26472#msg26472
date=1612644752]
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=2148.msg26463#msg26463
date=1612641498]
> All these people on here blaming Mason is baffling! The VAR
recommends a OFR. The decision ultimately lies with the onfield
official.
>
> 2 big errors: one by Mike Dean to send him off and 1 by
Mitrovic who’s pathetic rolling around and theatrics have forced
the referee into making a decision. Mike Dean can’t help himself
can he??
>
> This is the problem with players cheating and the
administrators doing nothing about it!! Until the authorities
get a grip with this and referees stop giving silly free kicks
for the smallest bit of contact then the game will continue down
this awful sorry path!
>
--- End Quote ---
That isn't how it really works. In Europe on field reviews
hardly ever result in the original result standing, and after
Graham Scott went to the monitor and stuck with his original
decision I suspect PL referees have been told to go with VAR.
It is a difficult message otherwise, you have an SG1 referee
saying it is a red card but the on pitch referee thinks he is
wrong.
[/quote]
Anyone with an ounce of feeling for the game would have looked
at the monitor, cancelled the red card and shown a yellow to
Mitrovic.
"isn't how it works" ???? I'm fed up with how it works. Premier
League games are barely worth watching now.
VAR was meant to help out the overstretched on-field officials.
Instead it's just providing two SG referees a chance to
adversely influence a game instead of the previous one.
But above all I'm fed up with the cheating. The lily-livered
administrators are making no attempt to deal with it and the
compliant referees don't want to rock the boat - they're doing
very nicely thank you out of this pathetic charade.
[/quote]
Absolutely correct, and what I said watching the game at the
time.
Mitrovic was holding, and the West Ham player did no more than
shrug him off. There may (or may not!) have been minimal
contact with his face, so he chose to throw himself to the
floor, clutching his face, like a petulant toddler. Let's not
dress it up, he was cheating to con the referee and get an
opponent sent off. It is a disgrace, helped by the willingness
for VAR to act in this way. I'm sure he was fully aware that
VAR may misinterpret the incident. Yet he walks away without
punishment.
It is time referees showed some willingness to punish players
who dive or fall as if they have been shot. Even if there is a
foul, simulation should 'trump' it and incur a sanction. It
would stop this ridiculous farce overnight.
#Post#: 26501--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: February 7, 2021, 6:09 am
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What disappoints me in this incident, apart from the failure to
sanction Mitrovic for his pathetic theatrics, is that if there
is one SG1 referee who was likely to stick with his initial
view, it would be Mike Dean. He evidently saw the incident and
started walking towards the players, but with absolutely no
indication he would have produced a RC for VC. I can only
wonder if the reason he spent so long at the screen was debating
in his own mind what to do - go with VAR who presumably
considered it a RC because allegedly of a clenched fist, or do
what he was intending to do which I assume would have been to
rollick the players with possibly a YC each. If that was the
case, imo he made the wrong choice.
The other possibility I suppose, although unlikely I would have
thought, is that Dean suggested to Mason he looked at the screen
to clarify what he'd seen. I'm sure someone quoted, perhaps on
another thread, that referees can do this in the case of
potential VC. Is this correct?
#Post#: 26504--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Fulham v West Ham
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 7, 2021, 6:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Irishref1985 link ---
>
> First Graham Scott makes a laughing stock of Mike Dean and now
Lee Mason becomes the second referee in the matter of days. Dean
is looking straight at the incident when it happens and he
decides to take no action. What do Scott and Mason have in
common? Neither should be officiating in the Premier League in
my opinion. Just not up to it..
>
--- End Quote ---
I think in this instance that Mike Dean has been perfectly
capable of making a laughing stock of himself all on his own. I
have the greatest respect for Mike Dean as a referee and also
actually as a great supporter of his refereeing colleagues,
however, if after looking at this several times he concluded
that a red card was the right sanction then either his
interpretation of what requires a red card needs serious
re-educating or else, if the red card was justified, football
has ceased to have much in common with how the game has been
played for over a hundred and fifty years. if this red card is
not rescinded then those responsible for the decision not to
rescind should hang their heads in shame and we might as well
begin the obsequies for the game we so enjoy.
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