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#Post#: 26299--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: February 3, 2021, 4:50 am
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For what it is worth:
1st red card - justified all day long
MU penalty or free kick - just outside, free kick correct
Southampton 'offside goal' - very marginal and I actually
thought SH were unlucky here
2nd red card - very soft and debatable, particularly as Mike
took his time reviewing the incident on the monitor.
To an extent therefore, I have some sympathy with Southampton,
although I'm relieved that they have taken over the tag of most
embarrassing result of the season from the Palace!
#Post#: 26300--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: Leggy
Date: February 3, 2021, 4:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> [quote author=Leggy link=topic=2139.msg26287#msg26287
date=1612336630]
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=2139.msg26281#msg26281
date=1612304827]
> Don't worry too much about these decisions because you can be
sure that IFAB will be along in another couple of months with
more changes to TLOG to make it more acceptable to all those who
desire no physical contact.
> All of this, aided and abetted by VAR, will certainly lead to
a sterile game that is not worth watching at the top level,
however, the players will be protected which is all that matters
these days.
>
> I had a thought earlier tonight about the use of excessive
force which is penalised. Are we not talking about two grown
people, who may be of different stature, challenging for a ball
and one happens to be stronger than the other? It's not as
though one is using a hammer or something to attack the other
player with excessive force, he is just using strength as I used
to do, even though I am only 5ft 7inches tall but built like a
brick outhouse. Just another thought on where the game is
headed.
>
--- End Quote ---
The "excessive force" to which you refer is the studded boot of
a fast moving force of around 65-85kg making contact with an
opponent's body without any care for the outcome. This is not
about eradicating physical contact from the game but it is about
players having to use their judgement as to when - and when not
- to make a challenge. The Southampton player last evening made
a bad judgement call, he endangered the safety of an opponent
and was correctly dismissed.
Its all very well looking back nostalgically to the days of
Norman Hunter, Ron Harris, Tommy Smith et al but the game was
entirely different then. The players were slower and their
physical stature and fitness was entirely different. Force =
Mass x Acceleration. The difference today in both "Mass" and
"Acceleration" means that the "Force" with which players make
contact on opponents is much greater than in earlier eras.
That is why the definition of serious foul play had to change,
and that is why it has changed.
[/quote]
I was not arguing about the challenge last night because that
was a sending off offence at any time that I played and
officiated.
I am talking about the many occasions when a player wins the
ball fair and square but is then deemed to have use excessive
force, mostly because his opponent rolls around on the pitch for
twenty minutes, carefully keeping an eye on the officials to
ensure that they have taken notice, and then he miraculously
recovers to complete the match without further problems.
Yes, the game has certainly changed, particularly at the top
level, however, I very much doubt that players make contact with
more force these days than they did previously.
[/quote]
100% agree on players faking serious injury in order to get an
opponent cautioned or sent off (I once described it as
"screaming like a girl" but my language was sanctioned with a
yellow card from the female members of the Leggy household).
If VAR wants to be really useful, it can identify these cheats
and suspend them as a means of rectifying their behaviour.
Every manager who complains about it in their opponents condones
it (perhaps only privately) among his own players. The ability
to act on this lies within the game (not an individual referee)
but is there the willingness and/or backbone to act??
Finally, I respect your view on the force of challenges, but
will stick with Newton. If they run faster and weigh more, then
the force will be greater. They do, and it does.
#Post#: 26301--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: February 3, 2021, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
5 goals + substitutions + injuries + 2 long VAR checks does not
add up to 3 added minutes.
Yet again a quick whistle (and no advantage played) denied
another goal.
#Post#: 26302--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: Claretman
Date: February 3, 2021, 5:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=dave26 link=topic=2139.msg26277#msg26277
date=1612303966]
> I really disagree with the laws how on earth does it make
sense that you can give a penalty away and only get a YC for
attempting to play the ball and yet give a penalty away and
receive a RC for trying to stop committing a foul bendarek and
Luisa are perfect examples of that nonsense law
>
--- End Quote ---
Bednarek and David Luiz did not receive red cards for trying to
stop committing fouls. They received them for failing to avoid
making contact with opponents who had obvious goalscoring
opportunities. The contacts were careless and therefore fouls.
[/quote]
I have to agree with you ref watcher, if they were trying to
avoid making a challenge/contact then why were they so close To
the attacker.
On the luiz challenge i am not sure he made contact from the
replays, but for def i could not say it was a clear and obvious
error either.
#Post#: 26305--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: ajb95
Date: February 3, 2021, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> 5 goals + substitutions + injuries + 2 long VAR checks does
not add up to 3 added minutes.
>
> Yet again a quick whistle (and no advantage played) denied
another goal.
>
--- End Quote ---
One of the rare instances where adding more time on is a
complete waste and lacking common sense. For a game that is 9-0
against 9 men who just want the game to finish, what would be
the point in adding on 6-7 minutes? It’s just silly
#Post#: 26307--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 3, 2021, 5:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
>
> 100% agree on players faking serious injury in order to get an
opponent cautioned or sent off (I once described it as
"screaming like a girl" but my language was sanctioned with a
yellow card from the female members of the Leggy household).
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Would have been a red from the one and only female member of the
bmb household but I applaud them for not letting you get away
with it!
#Post#: 26311--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 3, 2021, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think the law change regarding DOGSO was a positive one. It
was made before Euro 2016, almost 5 years ago, and there's been
very little controversy whereas it used to be we'd get several
red cards a season for DOGSO in penalty area that seemed rather
harsh and unsatisfactory (the one shown to the Bradford
goalkeeper in the 2013 League Cup final is one I'll always
remember.)
Perhaps it could be slightly amended, and perhaps on a different
day different officials would have made slightly different
decisions yesterday, but I don't think there's an easy or
obvious change and I don't think it's a huge problem for
football.
I wouldn't be critical of the lack of advantage for the
penalty/free-kick either. It looked inside in real time and
playing advantage instead of a penalty, especially when the
ball's still a fair way out, is always quite risky.
I think the penalty/free-kick decision is one where people need
to have a bit more faith in VAR, as they have much better access
to replays/angles than people at home and when everyone starts
shouting about how wrong they've got it and TV then shows a new
replay suggesting it was just outside....well.
#Post#: 26312--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: February 3, 2021, 7:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I think the law change regarding DOGSO was a positive one. It
was made before Euro 2016, almost 5 years ago, and there's been
very little controversy whereas it used to be we'd get several
red cards a season for DOGSO in penalty area that seemed rather
harsh and unsatisfactory (the one shown to the Bradford
goalkeeper in the 2013 League Cup final is one I'll always
remember.)
>
> Perhaps it could be slightly amended, and perhaps on a
different day different officials would have made slightly
different decisions yesterday, but I don't think there's an easy
or obvious change and I don't think it's a huge problem for
football.
>
> I wouldn't be critical of the lack of advantage for the
penalty/free-kick either. It looked inside in real time and
playing advantage instead of a penalty, especially when the
ball's still a fair way out, is always quite risky.
>
> I think the penalty/free-kick decision is one where people
need to have a bit more faith in VAR, as they have much better
access to replays/angles than people at home and when everyone
starts shouting about how wrong they've got it and TV then shows
a new replay suggesting it was just outside....well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to admit that I await the day when we can all actually
get back to attending matches when VAR is being used and not
have a clue as to what is actually going on. Certainly far more
exciting than seeing how they manufacture decisions from a
screen.
Will we ever be allowed back in?
#Post#: 26313--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: nemesis
Date: February 3, 2021, 9:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=bruntyboy link=topic=2139.msg26301#msg26301
date=1612351177]
> 5 goals + substitutions + injuries + 2 long VAR checks does
not add up to 3 added minutes.
>
> Yet again a quick whistle (and no advantage played) denied
another goal.
>
--- End Quote ---
One of the rare instances where adding more time on is a
complete waste and lacking common sense. For a game that is 9-0
against 9 men who just want the game to finish, what would be
the point in adding on 6-7 minutes? It’s just silly
[/quote]
Don't you understand how positions are determined for equal
points ?
Don't you understand how Ipswich fans are desperate to lose
their unwanted record?
#Post#: 26314--------------------------------------------------
Re: M DEAN - Man U v Southampton
DIR By: ajb95
Date: February 3, 2021, 9:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Southampton have written to the PL asking not to have Mason &
Dean referee any more games this season. Seems very dramatic but
suppose it highlights the problem of having the same officials
on a game whereby one week they are VAR and then the next they
are ref
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