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       #Post#: 26157--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: January 30, 2021, 4:15 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Irishref1985 link=topic=2130.msg26152#msg26152
       date=1612041894]
       > Some of the decision making from Lee Mason and his detection
       of fouls is appalling.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Usual inconsistent rubbish tonight....
       [/quote]
       Aided and abetted by players going to ground if someone breathed
       on them. I am sure that the PL has a sniper that travels from
       ground to ground because he was definitely at Everton, West Brom
       and Southampton today. I shall wait to pass judgement on the
       other games because I haven't seen them yet.
       Now I know why a couple of the Coldstream Guards are being
       investigated for stealing ammunition!
       #Post#: 26158--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: Claretman
       Date: January 30, 2021, 4:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
       >
       > Stunned an OFR wasn't recommended. I know the interpretation
       has changed since the start of the season but when you compare
       the penalties given then versus this penalty not being given
       today; if you didn't know better you wouldn't think it was the
       same season, the same league or heck even the same game!
       >
       > I am guessing that Dean felt that the ball grazed the leg
       first and that the PL have said that if the ball deflects from
       another body part onto the hand it is not a foul. That's a total
       guess but its the only rationale way I can attempt to explain
       this decision. It is this refereeing by numbers approach that is
       spoiling VAR in the PL, it shouldn't be a matter of ticking
       boxes - yes there are points along the way that can guide you to
       the correct decision but focusing on these factors too much
       means the big picture view is lost. I would be confident that if
       you gave Mike Dean one view of this incident in real time from
       the best angle available he would say penalty with little
       hesitation. It should be about making fair decisions, penalising
       foul play that effects outcomes. Not making sure a list of check
       boxes is completed so there can be a theoretical rationalisation
       for every decision - however crazy they may appear when we look
       at the bigger picture.
       >
       > Put simply I think the philosophy is totally skewed and the
       implementation totally inconsistent.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Whilst the game is refereed by humans and the var official is
       human there will be always be inconsistencies.
       On this occasion the referee and var had similar points of view,
       not that i agree with them or the handball laws and guidance,
       two other officials may have come to a different conclusion.
       As the great nz cricket commentors said 19 months “ the game has
       been won by the finest of margins “.
       Mason wasnt at his best tonight, but then i dont think he has
       been for a season or two, very inconsistent and random foul
       detection.
       This game without var would have had the same outcome, how
       correct or not, the referee didnt give the contested
       Penalty and simon long the ar must have ex ray vision to flag
       for the late ings goal that was ruled out.
       Thought southampton deserved at least a point and probably three
       but as villa found out last wed if you dont
       Convert chances you dont get owt.
       #Post#: 26160--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: ECity77
       Date: January 31, 2021, 2:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think a Southampton player was offside in the build up.
       As,  there was no corner given and the goalkeeper took a free
       kick in the middle of the 18 yard box. Plus, Lee Mason had his
       arm in the air to signal an indirect free kick.
       #Post#: 26161--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: Ref25
       Date: January 31, 2021, 3:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It appeared to me that the defender moved his hand / arm towards
       the ball, which would override anything about the ball
       ‘deflecting’ from his own body, especially when the deflection
       is so slight. It is just deliberately handling the ball.
       I’m not sure how well the line of ‘it would be a penalty if it
       hadn’t come off the defender’s own body’ holds. The LOTG list
       the handball offences and then say (my bold emphasis):
       It is an offence if a player:
       •
       moving the hand/arm towards the ball
       •
       even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
       •
       even if accidental, immediately:
       •
       •
       •
       •
       •
       (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then
       touches their hand/arm)
       Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball
       touches a player’s hand/arm:
       •
       foot)
       That reads to me as if it ticks one of the originally listed
       points then it doesn’t matter if the ball ‘deflected’ off the
       offending player.
       I think the offside restart may have been for a shot / attempted
       shot by a Southampton player after the ‘handball’ - the free
       kick maybe being taken five yards further forward than where the
       offence was.
       #Post#: 26162--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: PhiltheRef
       Date: January 31, 2021, 4:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I am not doubting Mr Mason's credentials, nor commenting on any
       specific incident.
       However, as has been discussed previously (and for me this game
       was a prime example) he doesn't seem to show much confidence in
       himself. In this scenario it's easy for others to lack 100%
       confidence in him and for decisions to be questioned
       #Post#: 26165--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: guest42
       Date: January 31, 2021, 5:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: PhiltheRef link ---
       >
       > I am not doubting Mr Mason's credentials, nor commenting on
       any specific incident.
       >
       > However, as has been discussed previously (and for me this
       game was a prime example) he doesn't seem to show much
       confidence in himself. In this scenario it's easy for others to
       lack 100% confidence in him and for decisions to be questioned
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       As Nuno pointed out - and got fined for it...
       #Post#: 26194--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: GingerReferee
       Date: February 1, 2021, 10:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Irishref1985 link ---
       >
       > Someone needs to show me the replay of the so called touch
       because they’ve shown three angles and there’s no clear evidence
       that there was any... a penalty and red card every day of the
       week for me
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       when i was watching motd, initial reaction was penalty, however
       i watched it back and it clips, minimal contact but enough, his
       thigh and goes onto his arm. IMO he is just lunging and gets
       lucky. However, had i been ref on field, i wouldn't have been
       able to see that unless i was within a few yards of him, and i
       think its a penalty. I don't think its a red though
       #Post#: 26199--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: LateTackle
       Date: February 1, 2021, 10:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
       link=topic=2130.msg26154#msg26154 date=1612043507]
       > [quote author=Irishref1985 link=topic=2130.msg26152#msg26152
       date=1612041894]
       > Some of the decision making from Lee Mason and his detection
       of fouls is appalling.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Usual inconsistent rubbish tonight....
       [/quote]
       Aided and abetted by players going to ground if someone breathed
       on them. I am sure that the PL has a sniper that travels from
       ground to ground because he was definitely at Everton, West Brom
       and Southampton today. I shall wait to pass judgement on the
       other games because I haven't seen them yet.
       Now I know why a couple of the Coldstream Guards are being
       investigated for stealing ammunition!
       [/quote]
       I absolutely agree.  This is the plague that is infesting the
       professional game.  The higher up you go, the worse it gets.
       And, of course, this game featured one of the very worst
       offenders.  Frankly, the game is hardly worth watching at that
       level now.
       I am sick and tired of seeing players feel the slightest of
       touches in the box and collapsing dramatically to the floor,
       despite the contact not being enough to floor a toddler after 2
       bags of Skittles.  The real problem is the willingness of
       referees (and the 'system') to award penalties for this
       playacting.  It is no more than a 'Cheat's Charter'.
       Football is not a no-contact sport.  Penalty kicks were not
       meant to be given for every tiny bit of contact.  I would much
       rather see referees punish any sort of dive, tumble or
       somersault with a yellow card, notwithstanding the minimal
       contact.  While we have the current farcical situation it will
       just get worse.  Clearly players practise this dark art, no
       doubt due to coaches who see it as their best chance of scoring.
       
       #Post#: 26205--------------------------------------------------
       Re: L MASON - Southampton v Villa (and VAR)
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: February 1, 2021, 1:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: LateTackle link ---
       >
       > Clearly players practise this dark art, no doubt due to
       coaches who see it as their best chance of scoring.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yet scream blue murder when the other team do exactly the same &
       also get away with it!
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