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#Post#: 25720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: REDSTRIPE
Date: January 20, 2021, 4:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=AFAref link=topic=2097.msg25706#msg25706
date=1611173479]
> [quote author=Tim Wills link=topic=2097.msg25701#msg25701
date=1611172876]
> What chance do us mere mortals have when a former Premier
League Referee and professional pundit says that is offside yet
@rustyref (who I believe is still a current referee and around
level 3) gives an opposing opinion?
>
--- End Quote ---
Possibly because, now retired, Rustyref was a high level
assistant referee and knows the interpretations better. The last
time the former premier league referee probably had a flag in
his hand was over 20 years ago.
The interpretation of the offside law is awful, and leaves
players with the option of leaving the ball in the hope the
attacker is given offside (easier with VAR) or play it and get
caught like in this instance.
The fact that one of the best assistants in the country, if not
the world, has given the non offside suggests that it’s the law
that’s an ass, not the officials implementing what they have
been told to
[/quote]
Not quite fully retired, but my knees gave up on L3 a few years
ago :)
I'm now a senior observer and we get shown videos on things just
like this. Once Mings deliberately touches the ball, and there
is no requirement for him to control it, the offside is reset so
it can't be offside.
[/quote] The law is an ass then...........everyone in their
right mind can see it should be offside.
What fool(s) changed this to make it not offside?
#Post#: 25723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 20, 2021, 4:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: REDSTRIPE link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=2097.msg25713#msg25713
date=1611176955]
> [quote author=AFAref link=topic=2097.msg25706#msg25706
date=1611173479]
> [quote author=Tim Wills link=topic=2097.msg25701#msg25701
date=1611172876]
> What chance do us mere mortals have when a former Premier
League Referee and professional pundit says that is offside yet
@rustyref (who I believe is still a current referee and around
level 3) gives an opposing opinion?
>
--- End Quote ---
Possibly because, now retired, Rustyref was a high level
assistant referee and knows the interpretations better. The last
time the former premier league referee probably had a flag in
his hand was over 20 years ago.
The interpretation of the offside law is awful, and leaves
players with the option of leaving the ball in the hope the
attacker is given offside (easier with VAR) or play it and get
caught like in this instance.
The fact that one of the best assistants in the country, if not
the world, has given the non offside suggests that it’s the law
that’s an ass, not the officials implementing what they have
been told to
[/quote]
Not quite fully retired, but my knees gave up on L3 a few years
ago :)
I'm now a senior observer and we get shown videos on things just
like this. Once Mings deliberately touches the ball, and there
is no requirement for him to control it, the offside is reset so
it can't be offside.
[/quote] The law is an ass then...........everyone in their
right mind can see it should be offside.
What fool(s) changed this to make it not offside?
[/quote]
As I said before, I don't like the current law. But it is what
it is, and you can't blame the match officials as there is no
way they could say that was offside.
Laws are set by IFAB, so if you want to blame anyone it is them.
#Post#: 25724--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: Claretman
Date: January 20, 2021, 4:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
First of all i should declare i have been a season ticket holder
at villa park for the last 15 years or so, tho
Never lived or worked within 100 miles of the ground. I like to
think i am fairly impartial when it comes to refereeing when
watching the team i support or any other team, some may disagree
of course.
Having said in a post on the appointments thread that villa fans
wouldnt be looking forward to mr moss refereeing tonights game,
as many villa fans think when he referees villa games villa dont
get the rub of the green.
I would prefer to say he is not the villas lucky charm.
Tonight on two game changing decisions i have to write both were
correct in law and villa should have no complaints.
Although i dont like the offside law personally as it stands, it
is what it is and was applied correctly
By mr cann, perhaps the best ever assistant referee from our
shores, and backed up mr moss and var.
The error made is clearly from mings, who as he often does,
overplays in a tight area trying to be clever and lacks
concentration.
Personally i cannot see how it is fair that a defender can be
dispossessed by an opponent running from a clear offside
position out of the eye line of that defender ie behind him.
I can understand dean smith saying no one thought it should be a
goal, but officials have to apply the law, as much of an ass as
it is.
Secondly penalty kick rightly awarded as the law stands at
present. No complaints in law.
Again not a law i agree with, heading at a defenders arms from a
short distance when the defender is off balance
Ie one foot of the ground which usually results in ones arms
moving in an upward position.
Dean smith should know better than to back chat the fourth
official and certainly not continue to back chat the referee
after receiving a yellow card no matter how upset he is. Reading
previous posts here and listening to grandad on bt, he isnt the
only one who doesnt understand the present laws.
Overall although villa put in good defensive performance and
counter attacked well, especially after recent off the field
events, i would say city shaded it.
Maybe it could have been different if villa had taken their
chances but same could be said of city too.
As regards laws of the game, the way the game is played and
administered, i guess things have changed massively since the
days of receiving lnvites from lancaster gate to fa county youth
cup finals along with the head of referee development in the
late eighties, but alas not for the better.
#Post#: 25725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 20, 2021, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A very good post.
I think the most alarming things for me were Rio Ferdinand
saying that players don't keep up with changes to the laws of
the game, and then Dean Smith pretty much said the same in his
interview. If I used that excuse for making a mistake in my
work, i.e. I hadn't kept up with the financial services
regulations, I would at best face disciplinary action and at
worst face prosecution.
Footballers claiming they don't know the laws of the game is an
absolute nonsense. They are published online, the changes are
well publicised in the media, they have many hours each week of
free time, it really is a totally ridiculous situation for them
to say they don't understand the laws.
#Post#: 25728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 20, 2021, 5:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> Footballers claiming they don't know the laws of the game is
an absolute nonsense. They are published online, the changes
are well publicised in the media, they have many hours each week
of free time, it really is a totally ridiculous situation for
them to say they don't understand the laws.
>
--- End Quote ---
When I was at Újpest with Nebojša we did a weekly session on our
light training day on the LOTG. Most weeks we covered offside
because the players just simply didn't get it, we even rounded
up copies of the LOTG in Hungarian, Serbian, Romanian and
Croatian in case it was a language barrier thing (we did the
sessions in English) but it made zero difference!! To this day
in at least 3 out of 5 games we have a goal disallowed for
offside! You can take a horse to water but...
#Post#: 25736--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: January 20, 2021, 6:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Don't forget the regular visits SG1 officials make to clubs
where I feel sure any change of interpretation would be
highlighted and any queries or uncertainties answered
#Post#: 25737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: Claretman
Date: January 20, 2021, 6:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: PhiltheRef link ---
>
> Don't forget the regular visits SG1 officials make to clubs
where I feel sure any change of interpretation would be
highlighted and any queries or uncertainties answered
>
--- End Quote ---
Are sg1 officials allowed to visit clubs other than on matchdays
in the present covid climate?
#Post#: 25738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 20, 2021, 6:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=PhiltheRef link=topic=2097.msg25736#msg25736
date=1611188840]
> Don't forget the regular visits SG1 officials make to clubs
where I feel sure any change of interpretation would be
highlighted and any queries or uncertainties answered
>
--- End Quote ---
Are sg1 officials allowed to visit clubs other than on matchdays
in the present covid climate?
[/quote]
I don't know but this particular law isn't recent at all - we
saw it with Kane/Lovren in the Liverpool V Spurs game three
years ago and I'm sure it's been around for quite a bit longer
than that. It's not like it was only introduced in June.
#Post#: 25739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 20, 2021, 6:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> As someone who does not support any English team I think its
interesting that, from my perspective anyway, I see more
comments along the lines of "I can only imagine the reaction if
this was club X/Y/Z" than I do actual comments reacting to poor
calls against clubs X/Y/Z!! (Maybe they just get all the calls
so have nothing to moan about ;))
>
> I think its pretty clear that Mings deliberately played the
ball with his chest before any interference by his opponent,
thereby mitigating any possible offside offence.
>
> As to how a certain former PL referee can get the
interpretation wrong? Well I trust the current officials both on
field and VAR to know the interpretations at lot better (not
forgetting rustyref too!) than a former PL referee who I have
heard give at best 'dumbed down' and at worst incorrect
interpretations on different occasions in the past.
>
--- End Quote ---
Spot on. Under the current laws, there's barely even a debate to
be had. Quite clearly onside.
#Post#: 25740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jon Moss/Darren Cann/VAR
DIR By: Claretman
Date: January 20, 2021, 7:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=2097.msg25737#msg25737
date=1611189393]
> [quote author=PhiltheRef link=topic=2097.msg25736#msg25736
date=1611188840]
> Don't forget the regular visits SG1 officials make to clubs
where I feel sure any change of interpretation would be
highlighted and any queries or uncertainties answered
>
--- End Quote ---
Are sg1 officials allowed to visit clubs other than on matchdays
in the present covid climate?
[/quote]
I don't know but this particular law isn't recent at all - we
saw it with Kane/Lovren in the Liverpool V Spurs game three
years ago and I'm sure it's been around for quite a bit longer
than that. It's not like it was only introduced in June.
[/quote]
I quite agree and am aware the law hasnt changed in the last few
years, i just wondered if the practice of visiting clubs other
than on matchdays was still being untertaken in these covid
times
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