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#Post#: 23999--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: December 8, 2020, 5:09 am
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Maybe the attacker's armpit was in the box? Of course the line
forms part of the penalty area and I hate it when a player tries
to foul a player just on the edge of the box so if a penalty is
given I have no sympathy for the defender whatsoever. OK, not in
the Laws but I have little sympathy for Brighton.
Dealing with fact and LOG, I felt it was a penalty and of course
VAR has to make a decision one way or another based on fact.
Benefit of doubt, clear and obvious just does not come into it.
As for Mr. Coote, I have to say that he is rather a good
referee. His VAR decisions have let him down but the fact is
that he is developing nicely.
#Post#: 24006--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 8, 2020, 6:10 am
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When I heard on commentary last night that Bankes was Coote's
VAR, I did wonder if that was a wise appointment!
As others have said, this is where being able to hear the
referee would help a lot. Did Coote only give foul for a shove
or did he think second part was also a continuation of the foul
but wasn't sure where it had ended?
I don't really agree with the view of 'no one would have argued'
or 'too close to call' because one thing we know for sure is
people will argue with pretty much any VAR decision and I think
the VARs have an active duty to make what they believe the
correct decision rather than just shrugging their shoulders and
saying 'to be honest mate, I'm not too sure'.
#Post#: 24019--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: nemesis
Date: December 8, 2020, 9:30 am
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--- Quote from: Failed Ref link ---
>
> Maybe the attacker's armpit was in the box? Of course the line
forms part of the penalty area and I hate it when a player tries
to foul a player just on the edge of the box so if a penalty is
given I have no sympathy for the defender whatsoever. OK, not in
the Laws but I have little sympathy for Brighton.
> Dealing with fact and LOG, I felt it was a penalty and of
course VAR has to make a decision one way or another based on
fact. Benefit of doubt, clear and obvious just does not come
into it. As for Mr. Coote, I have to say that he is rather a
good referee. His VAR decisions have let him down but the fact
is that he is developing nicely.
>
--- End Quote ---
And he's not the only one. I'm prepared to accept our on-field
referees are, by and large, the best we have, but clearly this
same cohort of individuals falls a long way short of the
standard required for VAR and its different skill set. The
people in charge should embark on an immediate process to
identify and recruit people who are far better at it. There must
be many.
#Post#: 24023--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: REDSTRIPE
Date: December 8, 2020, 10:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=Failed Ref link=topic=1986.msg23999#msg23999
date=1607425773]
> Maybe the attacker's armpit was in the box? Of course the line
forms part of the penalty area and I hate it when a player tries
to foul a player just on the edge of the box so if a penalty is
given I have no sympathy for the defender whatsoever. OK, not in
the Laws but I have little sympathy for Brighton.
> Dealing with fact and LOG, I felt it was a penalty and of
course VAR has to make a decision one way or another based on
fact. Benefit of doubt, clear and obvious just does not come
into it. As for Mr. Coote, I have to say that he is rather a
good referee. His VAR decisions have let him down but the fact
is that he is developing nicely.
>
--- End Quote ---
And he's not the only one. I'm prepared to accept our on-field
referees are, by and large, the best we have, but clearly this
same cohort of individuals falls a long way short of the
standard required for VAR and its different skill set. The
people in charge should embark on an immediate process to
identify and recruit people who are far better at it. There must
be many.
[/quote] I could do a better job for one.
mind you , depends if Riley and Swarbrook got to me and muddled
my head
#Post#: 24044--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: guest379
Date: December 8, 2020, 3:16 pm
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--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> Good decision, the foul continued into the penalty area. If
the official blew his whistle for the first offence/contact,
that's a mistake by him in not allowing it to develop before the
challenge had been completed.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, no, no! The foul does not continue, watch the footage, the
foul is outside, then KWP puts his foot deliberately onto March.
There is no foul here inside the box whatsoever. It's a joke
of a decision.
#Post#: 24064--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: guest42
Date: December 8, 2020, 5:05 pm
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dammit - hit the wrong icon thing there - meant to agree with
the post above.
To quote the NFL - there has to be "clear and uncontrovertible"
video evidence for a call to be overturned - on the balance of
probability - this failed to meet that test.
#Post#: 24091--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: RefObserver
Date: December 9, 2020, 7:18 am
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--- Quote from: BAFRA #217 link ---
>
> dammit - hit the wrong icon thing there - meant to agree with
the post above.
>
> To quote the NFL - there has to be "clear and
uncontrovertible" video evidence for a call to be overturned -
on the balance of probability - this failed to meet that test.
>
--- End Quote ---
Look bottom right - "undo rating"
You can remove and replace with the one you want.
#Post#: 24093--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: RefObserver
Date: December 9, 2020, 7:21 am
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Interesting one for me regarding VAR protocol.
Yes, it is a factual decision (in or out) and as such protocol
states the referee does not go over and view.
The problem with that is it is the VARs "opinion" that the foul
was inside and as such, the fact is it's inside. But only in his
OPINION.
I am actual in the penalty camp unlike most. At the time I said
pen straight away as I thought the contact continued inside the
area, but I agree it is a subjective decision as to if the
contact met the threshold of a foul challenge.
As such, I think the protocol should be changed for such
scenarios and the referee go over and have a look.
#Post#: 24098--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: December 9, 2020, 7:45 am
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--- Quote from: RefObserver link ---
>
> Interesting one for me regarding VAR protocol.
>
> Yes, it is a factual decision (in or out) and as such protocol
states the referee does not go over and view.
> The problem with that is it is the VARs "opinion" that the
foul was inside and as such, the fact is it's inside. But only
in his OPINION.
>
> I am actual in the penalty camp unlike most. At the time I
said pen straight away as I thought the contact continued inside
the area, but I agree it is a subjective decision as to if the
contact met the threshold of a foul challenge.
>
> As such, I think the protocol should be changed for such
scenarios and the referee go over and have a look.
>
--- End Quote ---
In any game in England outside of the PL, Mr Coote would have
given his decision of a free kick outside the area, bearing in
mind that the AR was also relatively close to the incident, and
the players would have accepted it and got on with the game.
We may have discussed the incident on here and had divided
opinions as to whether or not it was a foul outside or whether
it had continued into the box, however, it would not have
affected the original decision, it would just have been a
talking point.
With the intervention of VAR, we have a penalty given, a goal
scored, the result affected and both the referee and the VAR
official being pilloried for getting it wrong as far as some are
concerned and why?
I am sure that, without all this silly controversy caused solely
by the use of VAR, David Coote could have gone home on Monday
night and been happy with his performance because he did a good
job, as he has done when on the field in several games.
Yes, the use of VAR is certainly improving the game.
By the way, I am still looking for an answer to my question as
to whether added time is being allowed for the occasions when a
flag is not raised until well after an offside should have been
flagged in order to satisfy VAR.
#Post#: 24108--------------------------------------------------
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
DIR By: klhcms
Date: December 9, 2020, 9:49 am
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--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> If mr coote has blown his whistle for a free kick outside the
box, ie the first offence as he sees it, then he should have
looked at the monitor himself. If he has indeed blown for the
initial offence then play has stopped and
> Therefore surely var cant give a penalty as play has stopped.
> Again without being able to hear what the on field ref and the
var have said to each other we will be non the wiser.
> Personally i thought the foul outside the area given by mr
coote was correct, but from the tv replays i couldnt
> See whether any offence took place in the area or hear when
the whistle was blown.
>
> Think brighton may well have been unlucky with var on this
occasion.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sorry but that's simply not true and I don't think you can
genuinely believe that either. You're suggesting that in the
split second between the first contact and the players being
laid on the floor in the penalty area, Coote had blown his
whistle and therefore, anything that happened after he blew the
whistle AT THE EXACT INSTANT contact was initially made is
irrelevant? If so, Mr Coote has the best reaction times in
history.
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