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#Post#: 23608--------------------------------------------------
Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: December 1, 2020, 5:18 am
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I think that we are all fed up with talking about VAR, so I
won't.... [emoji41]
#Post#: 23620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: REDSTRIPE
Date: December 1, 2020, 6:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> I think that we are all fed up with talking about VAR, so I
won't.... [emoji41]
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah sick to death of it!
Well , apart from saying , yet again , that it is spoiling
football...!!
#Post#: 23652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: Claretman
Date: December 1, 2020, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The people implementing and operating var in the english game
are spoiling football.
I thought the var was supposed to help the on field referee by
seeing what he has missed and the assistant var
Was there to adjudicate for offsides.
In which case last night the avar would correctly see the villa
player was offside when putting the ball in the net.
What was the var ( additional referee ) looking at, he should
have been checking for foul play.
If it was deemed the west ham defender wasnt fouling the
attacker prior to the ball being crossed then all
Defenders are now allowed to hold attackers to prevent them
scoring without committing a foul.
If a penalty had been given, would the defender have been red
carded for dogso?
Before the cross was played you would say no, but the events
that occurred proved it was.
I guess w ham next opponents might feel hard done by if there
had been a sending off?
It seems nothing has been learnt from the van dijk incident in
the liverpool derby, where eyes seem to be closed
In the var dept apart from looking at the offside.
One other side line, players will not remain on their feet but
go to ground when fouled, unless referees give
The fouls committed if they remain on their feet. Referees are
their worst enemies here.
( sorry my pet hate and has been since the days before i hung up
my whistle ).
#Post#: 23659--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: ajb95
Date: December 2, 2020, 2:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> The people implementing and operating var in the english game
are spoiling football.
>
> I thought the var was supposed to help the on field referee by
seeing what he has missed and the assistant var
> Was there to adjudicate for offsides.
> In which case last night the avar would correctly see the
villa player was offside when putting the ball in the net.
> What was the var ( additional referee ) looking at, he should
have been checking for foul play.
> If it was deemed the west ham defender wasnt fouling the
attacker prior to the ball being crossed then all
> Defenders are now allowed to hold attackers to prevent them
scoring without committing a foul.
> If a penalty had been given, would the defender have been red
carded for dogso?
> Before the cross was played you would say no, but the events
that occurred proved it was.
> I guess w ham next opponents might feel hard done by if there
had been a sending off?
>
> It seems nothing has been learnt from the van dijk incident in
the liverpool derby, where eyes seem to be closed
> In the var dept apart from looking at the offside.
>
> One other side line, players will not remain on their feet but
go to ground when fouled, unless referees give
> The fouls committed if they remain on their feet. Referees are
their worst enemies here.
> ( sorry my pet hate and has been since the days before i hung
up my whistle ).
>
--- End Quote ---
Can you with confidence, say it was definitely offside? I can’t
#Post#: 23665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: REDSTRIPE
Date: December 2, 2020, 3:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=1963.msg23652#msg23652
date=1606862093]
> The people implementing and operating var in the english game
are spoiling football.
>
> I thought the var was supposed to help the on field referee by
seeing what he has missed and the assistant var
> Was there to adjudicate for offsides.
> In which case last night the avar would correctly see the
villa player was offside when putting the ball in the net.
> What was the var ( additional referee ) looking at, he should
have been checking for foul play.
> If it was deemed the west ham defender wasnt fouling the
attacker prior to the ball being crossed then all
> Defenders are now allowed to hold attackers to prevent them
scoring without committing a foul.
> If a penalty had been given, would the defender have been red
carded for dogso?
> Before the cross was played you would say no, but the events
that occurred proved it was.
> I guess w ham next opponents might feel hard done by if there
had been a sending off?
>
> It seems nothing has been learnt from the van dijk incident in
the liverpool derby, where eyes seem to be closed
> In the var dept apart from looking at the offside.
>
> One other side line, players will not remain on their feet but
go to ground when fouled, unless referees give
> The fouls committed if they remain on their feet. Referees are
their worst enemies here.
> ( sorry my pet hate and has been since the days before i hung
up my whistle ).
>
--- End Quote ---
Can you with confidence, say it was definitely offside? I can’t
[/quote] I can't either.......the more lines they put on there
the more confusing it gets.
It is a complete shambles
#Post#: 23667--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 2, 2020, 4:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: REDSTRIPE link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=1963.msg23659#msg23659
date=1606897644]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=1963.msg23652#msg23652
date=1606862093]
> The people implementing and operating var in the english game
are spoiling football.
>
> I thought the var was supposed to help the on field referee by
seeing what he has missed and the assistant var
> Was there to adjudicate for offsides.
> In which case last night the avar would correctly see the
villa player was offside when putting the ball in the net.
> What was the var ( additional referee ) looking at, he should
have been checking for foul play.
> If it was deemed the west ham defender wasnt fouling the
attacker prior to the ball being crossed then all
> Defenders are now allowed to hold attackers to prevent them
scoring without committing a foul.
> If a penalty had been given, would the defender have been red
carded for dogso?
> Before the cross was played you would say no, but the events
that occurred proved it was.
> I guess w ham next opponents might feel hard done by if there
had been a sending off?
>
> It seems nothing has been learnt from the van dijk incident in
the liverpool derby, where eyes seem to be closed
> In the var dept apart from looking at the offside.
>
> One other side line, players will not remain on their feet but
go to ground when fouled, unless referees give
> The fouls committed if they remain on their feet. Referees are
their worst enemies here.
> ( sorry my pet hate and has been since the days before i hung
up my whistle ).
>
--- End Quote ---
Can you with confidence, say it was definitely offside? I can’t
[/quote] I can't either.......the more lines they put on there
the more confusing it gets.
It is a complete shambles
[/quote]
It looked just offside on first viewing.
Worth saying the added lines were to try and make him 'onside'.
Calibration with first defender showed him offside, so they did
it with second defender too.
Ultimately, as I've said before, all PL clubs have signed up to
this system and referees have to implement what the system tells
them. You can't just have one referee suddenly deciding to
ignore it.
I agree there was a strong case for a penalty which didn't seem
to be fully considered. I guess DOGSO couldn't really be
justified because he wasn't in possession until the point at
which he was offside.
#Post#: 23670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: December 2, 2020, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not having seen this, do I take it that the alleged foul /
holding was happening before the ball was played forward?
Presumably if the offence only started after ball contact when
passed, offside, if it was, occurred first and the penalty
wouldn't be considered anyway.
Or was it happening before and continued after the ball was
played?
Apologies if this is not relevant, but I've not seen the film
clip.
#Post#: 23729--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: December 3, 2020, 5:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Not having seen this, do I take it that the alleged foul /
holding was happening before the ball was played forward?
> Presumably if the offence only started after ball contact when
passed, offside, if it was, occurred first and the penalty
wouldn't be considered anyway.
> Or was it happening before and continued after the ball was
played?
>
> Apologies if this is not relevant, but I've not seen the film
clip.
>
--- End Quote ---
Another thought. If the foul was inside the penalty area the
VAR could (should) have intervened. If it was outside (for
example holding but released before the attacker was inside the
area) the VAR couldn't get involved, which seems a bit of a
nonsense. What it really needs is some creative thinking from
the officials after viewing this type of incident. Along the
lines of the VAR saying "it was offside but there was a foul by
the defender. Tell them you were playing advantage and go back
for the free kick".
#Post#: 23744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 3, 2020, 10:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My take on this was that it couldn't be deemed a clear an
obvious error as at the time of the holding the ball was out on
the wing. I don't ever remember seeing a penalty given where
the ball is that far away simply because the match officials
can't possible see it as they aren't looking at it. Potentially
the assistant might be, but no assistant is going to flag for a
penalty when the ball is on the wing.
The only reason the holding was spotted by anyone was because of
the VAR check, so it wouldn't seem right to be to give a penalty
as that wasn't what they were looking for, and a penalty in that
situation wouldn't be given in any other game.
#Post#: 23752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Peter Bankes: West Ham v Aston Villa
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 3, 2020, 1:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> My take on this was that it couldn't be deemed a clear an
obvious error as at the time of the holding the ball was out on
the wing. I don't ever remember seeing a penalty given where
the ball is that far away simply because the match officials
can't possible see it as they aren't looking at it. Potentially
the assistant might be, but no assistant is going to flag for a
penalty when the ball is on the wing.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Surely that's why we have VAR? To spot things the officials
can't see.
THE PGMOL are completely losing credibility by trying to justify
not giving what TV replays show to be clear fouls. Carragher and
Neville ripped them to pieces on Monday night.
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