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#Post#: 22811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: November 8, 2020, 1:26 pm
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--- Quote ---
>
> It is all this nonsense that has made me fall out with the
game altogether. Joke handballs. Players feeling the slightest
brush of contact and hurling themselves down in agony to deceive
the referee as they 'have the right to go down'. Penalties
given all over the place for virtually nothing. I have
concluded that we could actually dispense with the tedious and
pointless formality of the game itself and decide all games by
penalty shoot outs.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Just seen Man City awarded a penalty v Liverpool.
>
> Current Law interpretation says penalty.
>
> I prefer Gary Neville's evaluation of the self same
interpretation
--- End Quote ---
The clear message is sent to players "feel a touch, or even
initiate a touch, and fall over spectacularly and you have a
good chance of getting a free kick/penalty - try to stay on your
feet and you've very little chance. Safe enough to dive as
yellow cards for simulation pretty much outlawed by referees."
Evidence - challenge on Sterling shortly before the Liverpool
penalty.
#Post#: 22828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: November 8, 2020, 6:38 pm
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Just seen Leicester penalty on SKY
In the current climate it was a penalty.
I don't like it and had it been given against a team I support I
would have been right vexed but that's the law
#Post#: 22831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: November 9, 2020, 1:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: PhiltheRef link ---
>
> Just seen Leicester penalty on SKY
>
> In the current climate it was a penalty.
>
> I don't like it and had it been given against a team I support
I would have been right vexed but that's the law
>
--- End Quote ---
It is and that is the problem...
#Post#: 22832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: November 9, 2020, 2:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
For years the cry has gone up for consistency, consistency ,
consistency. I never joined that particular clamour because I
had a shrewd idea where it would lead and it was precisely to
the present farcical situation. Sure you can have consistency by
eliminating any form of doubt or interpretation but it results
in a sterile, uninteresting spectacle which we have now where
any proper feeling for the game is slowly being eliminated.
Life is unpredictable and at times random, it's just how it is.
Sometimes it feels as though injustices are perpetrated but give
me that over bland and dull any time. With the advent of VAR and
these draconian rules which must rigorously be applied on each
occasion irrespective of circumstance, then the great god of
consistency is now lauded and worshipped...and what a sad state
of things it has occasioned. For me, top level football is
nowhere near as enjoyable as it once was and I am getting to
have a 'take it or leave it' attitude to it....and I never ever
thought I would say that.
#Post#: 22834--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: November 9, 2020, 3:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> For years the cry has gone up for consistency, consistency ,
consistency. I never joined that particular clamour because I
had a shrewd idea where it would lead and it was precisely to
the present farcical situation. Sure you can have consistency by
eliminating any form of doubt or interpretation but it results
in a sterile, uninteresting spectacle which we have now where
any proper feeling for the game is slowly being eliminated.
>
> Life is unpredictable and at times random, it's just how it
is. Sometimes it feels as though injustices are perpetrated but
give me that over bland and dull any time. With the advent of
VAR and these draconian rules which must rigorously be applied
on each occasion irrespective of circumstance, then the great
god of consistency is now lauded and worshipped...and what a sad
state of things it has occasioned. For me, top level football is
nowhere near as enjoyable as it once was and I am getting to
have a 'take it or leave it' attitude to it....and I never ever
thought I would say that.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is true, and indeed life would be the poorer, and indeed
would not exist, without some randomness. However. when in
close proximity there are two different decisions, not entirely
decided on randomness it is galling. Two, to my eyes, similar
degrees of contact and the decisions penalise the player who
tries to stay on his feet and reward the other who chooses
simply to collapse in heaps, then it is not just the god of
consistency that is offended but also the god of justice.
#Post#: 22835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: ajb95
Date: November 9, 2020, 4:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=1907.msg22832#msg22832
date=1604909904]
> For years the cry has gone up for consistency, consistency ,
consistency. I never joined that particular clamour because I
had a shrewd idea where it would lead and it was precisely to
the present farcical situation. Sure you can have consistency by
eliminating any form of doubt or interpretation but it results
in a sterile, uninteresting spectacle which we have now where
any proper feeling for the game is slowly being eliminated.
>
> Life is unpredictable and at times random, it's just how it
is. Sometimes it feels as though injustices are perpetrated but
give me that over bland and dull any time. With the advent of
VAR and these draconian rules which must rigorously be applied
on each occasion irrespective of circumstance, then the great
god of consistency is now lauded and worshipped...and what a sad
state of things it has occasioned. For me, top level football is
nowhere near as enjoyable as it once was and I am getting to
have a 'take it or leave it' attitude to it....and I never ever
thought I would say that.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is true, and indeed life would be the poorer, and indeed
would not exist, without some randomness. However. when in
close proximity there are two different decisions, not entirely
decided on randomness it is galling. Two, to my eyes, similar
degrees of contact and the decisions penalise the player who
tries to stay on his feet and reward the other who chooses
simply to collapse in heaps, then it is not just the god of
consistency that is offended but also the god of justice.
[/quote]
Maybe referees should stop penalising every small minute bit of
contact to encourage players to stay on their feet?
#Post#: 22836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Leggy
Date: November 9, 2020, 4:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=1907.msg22834#msg22834
date=1604914910]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=1907.msg22832#msg22832
date=1604909904]
> For years the cry has gone up for consistency, consistency ,
consistency. I never joined that particular clamour because I
had a shrewd idea where it would lead and it was precisely to
the present farcical situation. Sure you can have consistency by
eliminating any form of doubt or interpretation but it results
in a sterile, uninteresting spectacle which we have now where
any proper feeling for the game is slowly being eliminated.
>
> Life is unpredictable and at times random, it's just how it
is. Sometimes it feels as though injustices are perpetrated but
give me that over bland and dull any time. With the advent of
VAR and these draconian rules which must rigorously be applied
on each occasion irrespective of circumstance, then the great
god of consistency is now lauded and worshipped...and what a sad
state of things it has occasioned. For me, top level football is
nowhere near as enjoyable as it once was and I am getting to
have a 'take it or leave it' attitude to it....and I never ever
thought I would say that.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is true, and indeed life would be the poorer, and indeed
would not exist, without some randomness. However. when in
close proximity there are two different decisions, not entirely
decided on randomness it is galling. Two, to my eyes, similar
degrees of contact and the decisions penalise the player who
tries to stay on his feet and reward the other who chooses
simply to collapse in heaps, then it is not just the god of
consistency that is offended but also the god of justice.
[/quote]
Maybe referees should stop penalising every small minute bit of
contact to encourage players to stay on their feet?
[/quote]
But equally, they must punish a foul challenge when the player
does not go down - otherwise they (players and managers) will
continue to believe that they only way that a foul can be
awarded is by hitting the ground (sometimes theatrically!)
#Post#: 22839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: November 9, 2020, 5:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree with the basic thrust of your point
Microscopist but where human decisions and adjudications have to
be made then there will always be that which can appear
inconsistent. " In the opinion of the referee" was always
enshrined in football officiating and opinions are invariably
based on interpretations. It sure can be galling.
After many years in its environs i would say that there is no
deity of justice, or if there is then its name is Caprice
#Post#: 22841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: November 9, 2020, 6:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> After many years in its environs i would say that there is no
deity of justice, or if there is then its name is Caprice
--- End Quote ---
My own, occasional, appearances as a so called "expert" witness
would put the courts very far away from the domains of both the
gods of consistency and justice. I did suspect an East to West
trend in magistrate/sheriff courts to set the "beyond reasonable
doubt" requirements higher towards the West of the UK. Of
course, in my case, the admirable Scottish verdict of "Not
Proven" was often in my view the most appropriate - a view
apparently shared by a magistrate in Plymouth who tried that
verdict (correctly as events turned out later) only to be
corrected by the clerk.
#Post#: 22844--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leicester v Wolves (A Taylor)
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: November 9, 2020, 7:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have very little knowledge of Scottish jurisprudence but the
Not Proven verdict has always somewhat intrigued me. One rather
cynical interpretation of it runs " we're pretty darn sure you
did it but it's too circumstantial; there just isn't the
concrete evidence to put it beyond all reasonable doubt" I
apologise if this is a prime example of English bias !
i have sometimes thought that a Not Proven sanction could be
used on the football field. An orange card, two of which ( over
any number of games ) would lead to a one game ban.
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