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#Post#: 22474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: October 27, 2020, 4:53 pm
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That system for straight Red Cards certainly has its merits bmb.
What's the make-up of the Disciplinary Committee out of
interest? And is there any Appeals procedure within that system?
#Post#: 22475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: ARF
Date: October 27, 2020, 5:18 pm
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--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I'm confused too. They're saying it was Serious Foul Play but
not serious Serious Foul Play?
>
> I seem to remember something similar happening with Matic
against Burnley a few years ago when he played for Chelsea,
although I think it was a 2 game ban.
>
--- End Quote ---
At the higher levels of the game (i.e. Step 3/4 and above, where
discipline is dealt with by The FA and not the County FAs), in
addition to wrongful dismissal claims clubs also have the option
to submit a claim that the standard punishment for a sending off
offence would be excessive, in which case they would submit any
evidence in support of their claim and a disciplinary commission
makes a decision accordingly.
#Post#: 22476--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: October 27, 2020, 5:22 pm
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Although I thought it was SFP maybe the suits that decide these
matters decided he earned two yellow cards in the same incident.
That said his first challenge wasn’t reckless so by the Referee
playing advantage Law says he can’t go back and caution. Has the
straight red for SCP been overturned or does it stand but
they’ve reduced the ban?
Perhaps being optimistic expecting an explanation.
#Post#: 22478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: bmb
Date: October 27, 2020, 6:50 pm
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--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> That system for straight Red Cards certainly has its merits
bmb.
>
> What's the make-up of the Disciplinary Committee out of
interest? And is there any Appeals procedure within that system?
>
--- End Quote ---
I believe it is members of the referee committee who make up the
disciplinary panel but not 100% sure, their names are not listed
on the MLSZ website anywhere.
There is an appeals process. When Karakó gave Király a red card
for OFFINABUS and Király disputed it, there were 2 appeals. The
first appeal was suspended for the recording from the referees
headset to be produced & at the 2nd appeal the ban was ended.
Unfortunately by then he had already served a 2 match ban out of
the original 3 given but importantly his name was cleared. He
had not said what Mr Karakó believed he had said & this was
proven for the player by the referees coms.
The referees coms are recorded as standard. It is an automatic
process and the recording is uploaded directly to the MLSZ
server. The referee cannot access it and cannot turn it off once
it has started. It is held on a secure server and someone
pretty high up in the MLSZ has to give the permission for it to
be accessed. They have been recorded since at least season
16/17. That was the season a player made a false allegation of
racism against Mr Kassai in order to try and get out of a 5
match ban for basically trying to punch him on the pitch! That
one actually went to a court of Law and they played a recording
of the game from kick off until the point of the sending off
with the TV commentary turned off and the recording of Kassai's
comms being played instead. It completely exonerated him,
unsurprisingly!!
#Post#: 22479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: October 28, 2020, 4:27 am
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--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=Irrelohe link=topic=1877.msg22470#msg22470
date=1603825384]
> I think the decision to reduce the punishment to a one-game
ban is very sensible (and I say that as the spouse of a
Southampton supporter). It has long annoyed me that the
disparity in the level of punishment for an offence which, if we
are being honest, could have been sanctioned with either a
yellow or a red card is so great - three matches for a red but
simply counting towards the totting-up procedure for a yellow.
As in so many other respects, Germany has a better disciplinary
system than this country, the standard punishment for a red
being a on-game ban, which is liable to be increased only if the
offence is deemed particularly serious. In no way was Digne's
offence (imo) particularly serious, even if it was technically
SFP (there is of course a separate debate to be had about
whether the law relating to SFP is right or should be changed).
> I recall an incident a few years ago when Schneiderlin, when
playing for Southampton, was sent off for a minor slap to the
face of an opponent and had his three-game standard ban reduced
on appeal to one on the ground that the standard ban was
manifestly excessive. I guess that the Digne case fell within
the modern equivalent of that procedure. Perhaps Manchester
United should have done the same thing in relation to the recent
Martial incident?
>
--- End Quote ---
Although I agree with your proposal/thoughts regarding differing
levels of Red Cards, I do not agree that this wasn't worthy of a
three match ban.
It was an intentional and cowardly challenge after failing to
illegally stop the player previously, that had the potential to
give the player a long term agonising achilles injury.
[/quote]
In agreeing fully with QuoCob on this one, I believe a dangerous
precedent has been set. This was not a case of (for example)
'severe provocation' where a lesser ban might have been
justified, this was serious foul play and the standard 3-match
ban should have stood.
#Post#: 22480--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Irrelohe
Date: October 28, 2020, 5:27 am
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QuoCob and Acme Thunderer - I guess we'll just have to agree to
disagree on this one. I've only seen the highlights, but it
seemed to me that the foul was quite unintentional and
accidental. It might well have been SFP within the letter of the
law (whatever you think of the law) and so the red card may have
been right, but it seems that the disciplinary panel must have
agreed with my view that the standard punishment was excessive
in the circumstances.
According to the BBC (which sadly is not always reliable these
days) the red card has stood but the punishment has been reduced
(i.e not two yellows or anything like that).
I agree the Hungarian disciplinary system seems far superior to
that in this country.
#Post#: 22486--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: October 28, 2020, 8:58 am
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--- Quote from: Irrelohe link ---
>
> QuoCob and Acme Thunderer - I guess we'll just have to agree
to disagree on this one. I've only seen the highlights, but it
seemed to me that the foul was quite unintentional and
accidental. It might well have been SFP within the letter of the
law (whatever you think of the law) and so the red card may have
been right, but it seems that the disciplinary panel must have
agreed with my view that the standard punishment was excessive
in the circumstances.
>
> According to the BBC (which sadly is not always reliable these
days) the red card has stood but the punishment has been reduced
(i.e not two yellows or anything like that).
>
> I agree the Hungarian disciplinary system seems far superior
to that in this country.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks, and a belated welcome Irrelohe to the RTR website, where
it is good to be able to put forward differing views on our
favourite topics.
#Post#: 22539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: October 31, 2020, 6:31 am
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Without a hint of sarcasm or bitterness in this post, I hope
that Luka Milivojevic's red card last night will result in a
reduced or no ban. Roy Hodgson called it a 'fair tackle' and,
having set the precedent at Southampton, the authorities must
act in the same way for LM. Fair's fair imo.
#Post#: 22540--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kevin Friend, Southampton v Everton
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: October 31, 2020, 7:01 am
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--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> Without a hint of sarcasm or bitterness in this post, I hope
that Luka Milivojevic's red card last night will result in a
reduced or no ban. Roy Hodgson called it a 'fair tackle' and,
having set the precedent at Southampton, the authorities must
act in the same way for LM. Fair's fair imo.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, however, Roy is old school. like myself, and what he
considers a fair tackle is now endangering an opponent, just by
virtue of making the tackle.
A fair tackle where you win the ball no longer matters if you
happen to catch your opponent in the process and he can roll
around screaming in agony and then, once he sees that his
opponent has been cautioned or dismissed, he just gets up and,
in more cases than not, he completes the whole match.
It's all very sad, particularly when your memory of the past is
jogged by the passing of Norbert Stiles who did love a tackle.
RIP Nobby.
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