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#Post#: 21420--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: September 29, 2020, 6:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
justified.
>
> I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
or not offside was going to be given!)
>
--- End Quote ---
One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
also be that his team have already used their subs and would
have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
was originally offside!
#Post#: 21422--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 29, 2020, 7:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
date=1601376134]
> I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
justified.
>
> I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
or not offside was going to be given!)
>
--- End Quote ---
One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
also be that his team have already used their subs and would
have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
was originally offside!
[/quote]
Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
more unfortunate if it was offside!
You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
which VAR would have detected.
#Post#: 21425--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: September 29, 2020, 7:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21420#msg21420
date=1601379789]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
date=1601376134]
> I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
justified.
>
> I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
or not offside was going to be given!)
>
--- End Quote ---
One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
also be that his team have already used their subs and would
have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
was originally offside!
[/quote]
Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
more unfortunate if it was offside!
You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
which VAR would have detected.
[/quote]
I was specifically talking about the ludicrous situation with
offside --nothing else. No flag given when a player is yards
offside because VAR could make the decision later ---meanwhile
we put more work on the NHS with an injured player who did not
need to be injured.
#Post#: 21426--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: September 29, 2020, 8:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21422#msg21422
date=1601381724]
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21420#msg21420
date=1601379789]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
date=1601376134]
> I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
justified.
>
> I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
or not offside was going to be given!)
>
--- End Quote ---
One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
also be that his team have already used their subs and would
have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
was originally offside!
[/quote]
Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
more unfortunate if it was offside!
You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
which VAR would have detected.
[/quote]
I was specifically talking about the ludicrous situation with
offside --nothing else. No flag given when a player is yards
offside because VAR could make the decision later ---meanwhile
we put more work on the NHS with an injured player who did not
need to be injured.
[/quote]
I think that the majority of us knew what you were referring
to... ;)
I think that we have a poster amongst us who takes an opposite
view of most things, without an appropriate justification, just
to stir it... ::)
#Post#: 21427--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 29, 2020, 9:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21425#msg21425
date=1601384012]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21422#msg21422
date=1601381724]
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21420#msg21420
date=1601379789]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
date=1601376134]
> I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
justified.
>
> I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
or not offside was going to be given!)
>
--- End Quote ---
One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
also be that his team have already used their subs and would
have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
was originally offside!
[/quote]
Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
more unfortunate if it was offside!
You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
which VAR would have detected.
[/quote]
I was specifically talking about the ludicrous situation with
offside --nothing else. No flag given when a player is yards
offside because VAR could make the decision later ---meanwhile
we put more work on the NHS with an injured player who did not
need to be injured.
[/quote]
I think that the majority of us knew what you were referring
to... ;)
I think that we have a poster amongst us who takes an opposite
view of most things, without an appropriate justification, just
to stir it... ::)
[/quote]
My point is that in any game a striker could be given onside
when they're actually offside and an injury results - if a VAR
game then a goal would not have counted so the play is
essentially 'worthless'.
Or you could have a situation where an assistant thinks it's
offside and delays the flag, a player gets injured and VAR then
shows it was actually onside and the assistant was wrong.
How is anyone meant to judge which injuries are the more
frustrating or which 'did not need to happen' and which did need
to happen?
Unfortunately, injuries will sometimes happen in football, like
accidents and misfortune happen in any walk of life. You might
think it more of a price worth paying if you make a vital
contribution in the 90th minute of a World Cup final compared to
if you're 5-0 down in a testimonial when the injury happens but
injuries will happen all the same.
I'm sure a player would be frustrated if they got injured when
the play wouldn't have counted but equally I'm sure they get
frustrated if they have a goal incorrectly disallowed, etc. so
football has to try and find that balance (and yes if a player
is mile offside then a quicker intervention could be justified.)
#Post#: 21428--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: September 29, 2020, 9:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but as an AR you are instructed to 'flag early' if there is
a possibility of a collision, especially between the attacker
and goalkeeper in an offside situation, which is what Ashington
was referring to.
#Post#: 21435--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: rustyref
Date: September 29, 2020, 10:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Matt link ---
>
> [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
date=1601364721]
> I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
>
--- End Quote ---
However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
player should've been booked as well?
[/quote]
Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
#Post#: 21437--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: ajb95
Date: September 29, 2020, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1804.msg21405#msg21405
date=1601368714]
> [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
date=1601364721]
> I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
>
--- End Quote ---
However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
player should've been booked as well?
[/quote]
Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
[/quote]
Another pointless and unnecessary rule change...
#Post#: 21439--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: September 29, 2020, 11:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=1804.msg21435#msg21435
date=1601394616]
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1804.msg21405#msg21405
date=1601368714]
> [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
date=1601364721]
> I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
>
--- End Quote ---
However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
player should've been booked as well?
[/quote]
Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
[/quote]
Another pointless and unnecessary rule change...
[/quote]
The logic being that the miscreant has not stopped a promising
attack and therefore can't be punished for doing so.
#Post#: 21440--------------------------------------------------
Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 29, 2020, 11:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=1804.msg21437#msg21437
date=1601395501]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=1804.msg21435#msg21435
date=1601394616]
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1804.msg21405#msg21405
date=1601368714]
> [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
date=1601364721]
> I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
>
--- End Quote ---
However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
player should've been booked as well?
[/quote]
Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
[/quote]
Another pointless and unnecessary rule change...
[/quote]
The logic being that the miscreant has not stopped a promising
attack and therefore can't be punished for doing so.
[/quote]
I think it makes sense in some situations where there is no
detrimental impact on the attack caused by the foul - but there
will be other instances where the foul slightly halts the
momentum of the attack or allows a defender to get back etc.
where a yellow card would still feel reasonable.
Of course FIFA have let many cynical fouls go in the past few
World Cups, even when no advantage has been possible! (Indeed
anyone looking at the approach to officiating in the past two
men's World Cups might dispute the suggestion that 'the LOTG
must be applied the same everywhere'.
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