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       #Post#: 21420--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: September 29, 2020, 6:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       > I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
       playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
       justified.
       >
       > I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
       last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
       the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
       the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
       the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
       possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
       or not offside was going to be given!)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
       will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
       he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
       seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
       that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
       been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
       also be that his team have already used their subs and would
       have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
       There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
       etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
       instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
       is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
       Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
       matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
       keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
       was originally offside!
       #Post#: 21422--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: September 29, 2020, 7:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
       date=1601376134]
       > I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
       playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
       justified.
       >
       > I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
       last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
       the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
       the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
       the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
       possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
       or not offside was going to be given!)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
       will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
       he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
       seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
       that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
       been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
       also be that his team have already used their subs and would
       have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
       There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
       etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
       instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
       is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
       Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
       matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
       keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
       was originally offside!
       [/quote]
       Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
       warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
       more unfortunate if it was offside!
       You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
       offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
       which VAR would have detected.
       #Post#: 21425--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: September 29, 2020, 7:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21420#msg21420
       date=1601379789]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
       date=1601376134]
       > I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
       playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
       justified.
       >
       > I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
       last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
       the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
       the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
       the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
       possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
       or not offside was going to be given!)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
       will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
       he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
       seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
       that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
       been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
       also be that his team have already used their subs and would
       have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
       There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
       etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
       instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
       is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
       Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
       matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
       keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
       was originally offside!
       [/quote]
       Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
       warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
       more unfortunate if it was offside!
       You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
       offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
       which VAR would have detected.
       [/quote]
       I was specifically talking about the ludicrous situation with
       offside --nothing else. No flag given when a player is yards
       offside because VAR could make the decision later ---meanwhile
       we put more work on the NHS with an injured player who did not
       need to be injured.
       #Post#: 21426--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: QuoCob
       Date: September 29, 2020, 8:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21422#msg21422
       date=1601381724]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21420#msg21420
       date=1601379789]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
       date=1601376134]
       > I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
       playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
       justified.
       >
       > I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
       last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
       the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
       the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
       the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
       possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
       or not offside was going to be given!)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
       will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
       he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
       seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
       that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
       been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
       also be that his team have already used their subs and would
       have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
       There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
       etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
       instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
       is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
       Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
       matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
       keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
       was originally offside!
       [/quote]
       Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
       warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
       more unfortunate if it was offside!
       You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
       offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
       which VAR would have detected.
       [/quote]
       I was specifically talking about the ludicrous situation with
       offside --nothing else. No flag given when a player is yards
       offside because VAR could make the decision later ---meanwhile
       we put more work on the NHS with an injured player who did not
       need to be injured.
       [/quote]
       I think that the majority of us knew what you were referring
       to... ;)
       I think that we have a poster amongst us who takes an opposite
       view of most things, without an appropriate justification, just
       to stir it... ::)
       #Post#: 21427--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: September 29, 2020, 9:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21425#msg21425
       date=1601384012]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21422#msg21422
       date=1601381724]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=1804.msg21420#msg21420
       date=1601379789]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1804.msg21412#msg21412
       date=1601376134]
       > I guess a slap in the face generally has nothing to do with
       playing the game so 'excessive force' could be more easily
       justified.
       >
       > I agree it was a good advantage and Pawson played quite a few
       last night. One, presumably unintended consequence, of keeping
       the offside flag down until an attacking move has ended is that
       the defensive team often regains possession at that point and so
       the game can continue giving it a greater flow (although a
       possible downside is there's sometimes uncertainty about whether
       or not offside was going to be given!)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       One other downside to keeping the flag down is that a keeper
       will do everything to stop a goal and in a one on one situation
       he could be diving at a player's feet to win the ball, be
       seriously injured and have to be replaced, only to find out
       that, as he is being carried off, a free kick for offside has
       been awarded just inside his own half. Another drawback could
       also be that his team have already used their subs and would
       have to play a man short for the remainder of the match.
       There is all this talk of players being reckless, out of control
       etc., etc. and yet, by the simple fact that, an AR, working to
       instructions, does not raise a flag even though he knows that it
       is an obvious offside, a player could end up seriously injured.
       Yet everyone tells me that it is the safety of players that
       matters ---it would appear not because, although I have used a
       keeper as example, it could be any player including the one who
       was originally offside!
       [/quote]
       Well that could happen in any game, or training session, or
       warm-up. It's just an unfortunate part of football - slightly
       more unfortunate if it was offside!
       You could equally have a case where the officials missed an
       offence by an attacking player which leads to an injury but
       which VAR would have detected.
       [/quote]
       I was specifically talking about the ludicrous situation with
       offside --nothing else. No flag given when a player is yards
       offside because VAR could make the decision later ---meanwhile
       we put more work on the NHS with an injured player who did not
       need to be injured.
       [/quote]
       I think that the majority of us knew what you were referring
       to... ;)
       I think that we have a poster amongst us who takes an opposite
       view of most things, without an appropriate justification, just
       to stir it... ::)
       [/quote]
       My point is that in any game a striker could be given onside
       when they're actually offside and an injury results - if a VAR
       game then a goal would not have counted so the  play is
       essentially 'worthless'.
       Or you could have a situation where an assistant thinks it's
       offside and delays the flag, a player gets injured and VAR then
       shows it was actually onside and the assistant was wrong.
       How is anyone meant to judge which injuries are the more
       frustrating or which 'did not need to happen' and which did need
       to happen?
       Unfortunately, injuries will sometimes happen in football, like
       accidents and misfortune happen in any walk of life. You might
       think it more of a price worth paying if you make a vital
       contribution in the 90th minute of a World Cup final compared to
       if you're 5-0 down in a testimonial when the injury happens but
       injuries will happen all the same.
       I'm sure a player would be frustrated if they got injured when
       the play wouldn't have counted but equally I'm sure they get
       frustrated if they have a goal incorrectly disallowed, etc. so
       football has to try and find that balance (and yes if a player
       is mile offside then a quicker intervention could be justified.)
       #Post#: 21428--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: QuoCob
       Date: September 29, 2020, 9:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yes, but as an AR you are instructed to 'flag early' if there is
       a possibility of a collision, especially between the attacker
       and goalkeeper in an offside situation, which is what Ashington
       was referring to.
       #Post#: 21435--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: September 29, 2020, 10:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Matt link ---
       >
       > [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
       date=1601364721]
       > I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
       first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
       not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
       player should've been booked as well?
       [/quote]
       Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
       back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
       caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
       #Post#: 21437--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: September 29, 2020, 11:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Matt link=topic=1804.msg21405#msg21405
       date=1601368714]
       > [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
       date=1601364721]
       > I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
       first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
       not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
       player should've been booked as well?
       [/quote]
       Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
       back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
       caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
       [/quote]
       Another pointless and unnecessary rule change...
       #Post#: 21439--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: Ref Watcher
       Date: September 29, 2020, 11:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=1804.msg21435#msg21435
       date=1601394616]
       > [quote author=Matt link=topic=1804.msg21405#msg21405
       date=1601368714]
       > [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
       date=1601364721]
       > I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
       first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
       not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
       player should've been booked as well?
       [/quote]
       Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
       back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
       caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
       [/quote]
       Another pointless and unnecessary rule change...
       [/quote]
       The logic being that the miscreant has not stopped a promising
       attack and therefore can't be punished for doing so.
       #Post#: 21440--------------------------------------------------
       Re: C Pawson: Liverpool v Arsenal
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: September 29, 2020, 11:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
       >
       > [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=1804.msg21437#msg21437
       date=1601395501]
       > [quote author=rustyref link=topic=1804.msg21435#msg21435
       date=1601394616]
       > [quote author=Matt link=topic=1804.msg21405#msg21405
       date=1601368714]
       > [quote author=TundeP link=topic=1804.msg21402#msg21402
       date=1601364721]
       > I think the excellent advantage he played before Liverpool's
       first goal (praised both in media and on social media, something
       not often seen concerning a referee) should also be mentioned.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       However, post this advantage does anyone else think the Arsenal
       player should've been booked as well?
       [/quote]
       Law change this season, if you play advantage you can't then go
       back and caution for stopping a promising attack, you could only
       caution if the challenge ticked the reckless box.
       [/quote]
       Another pointless and unnecessary rule change...
       [/quote]
       The logic being that the miscreant has not stopped a promising
       attack and therefore can't be punished for doing so.
       [/quote]
       I think it makes sense in some situations where there is no
       detrimental impact on the attack caused by the foul - but there
       will be other instances where the foul slightly halts the
       momentum of the attack or allows a defender to get back etc.
       where a yellow card would still feel reasonable.
       Of course FIFA have let many cynical fouls go in the past few
       World Cups, even when no advantage has been possible! (Indeed
       anyone looking at the approach to officiating in the past two
       men's World Cups might dispute the suggestion that 'the LOTG
       must be applied the same everywhere'.
       *****************************************************
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