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#Post#: 21022--------------------------------------------------
P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: September 20, 2020, 11:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Again, finally we are seeing what VAR should be used for. I
thought red straight away and was very surprised Tierney went
yellow to start with.
At least he’s ditched the circle red card! 😂😂
#Post#: 21025--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: September 20, 2020, 11:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed with
yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
#Post#: 21028--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: Matt
Date: September 20, 2020, 12:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
#Post#: 21032--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: September 20, 2020, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Matt link ---
>
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
#Post#: 21035--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 20, 2020, 1:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1775.msg21028#msg21028
date=1600623070]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
[/quote]
Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless
of if there was an attempt to play the ball.
The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there
first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have
(and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)
When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get
much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card
- certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on
Sky or 5 Live.
#Post#: 21040--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: Matt
Date: September 20, 2020, 3:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1775.msg21028#msg21028
date=1600623070]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
[/quote]
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=1775.msg21032#msg21032
date=1600626069]
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1775.msg21028#msg21028
date=1600623070]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
[/quote]
Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless
of if there was an attempt to play the ball.
[/quote]
Well thank you both, everyday is a school day.
#Post#: 21069--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: September 21, 2020, 7:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=1775.msg21032#msg21032
date=1600626069]
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1775.msg21028#msg21028
date=1600623070]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
[/quote]
Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless
of if there was an attempt to play the ball.
The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there
first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have
(and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)
When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get
much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card
- certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on
Sky or 5 Live.
[/quote]
But is most likely good enough for a red card? It has to be an
obvious goalscoring opportunity. For that to be the case Mane
would either have to have control, or obviously be about to gain
control, of the ball. It was not sufficiently obvious for me
that that was the case. It should have been a yellow card for
me
As an aside, Paul Tierney's position was such that he couldn't
make that call. He was directly behind the incident and failed
to give himself an angle to judge it.
#Post#: 21086--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: rustyref
Date: September 21, 2020, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1775.msg21035#msg21035
date=1600627959]
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=1775.msg21032#msg21032
date=1600626069]
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1775.msg21028#msg21028
date=1600623070]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
[/quote]
Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless
of if there was an attempt to play the ball.
The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there
first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have
(and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)
When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get
much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card
- certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on
Sky or 5 Live.
[/quote]
But is most likely good enough for a red card? It has to be an
obvious goalscoring opportunity. For that to be the case Mane
would either have to have control, or obviously be about to gain
control, of the ball. It was not sufficiently obvious for me
that that was the case. It should have been a yellow card for
me
As an aside, Paul Tierney's position was such that he couldn't
make that call. He was directly behind the incident and failed
to give himself an angle to judge it.
[/quote]
For me it was definitely obvious enough, my immediate reaction
was DOGSO and no replays I've seen have changed that view.
I would argue that he couldn't give himself an angle, he just
didn't have time given how quickly the ball was played down
field. In that type of situation there is a trade off, as
running to get an angle leaves you even further behind play and
any potential incident. Sometimes the best option is a straight
line sprint to get yourself out of trouble.
#Post#: 21089--------------------------------------------------
Re: P TIERNEY - Chelsea v Liverpool
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 21, 2020, 11:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1775.msg21035#msg21035
date=1600627959]
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=1775.msg21032#msg21032
date=1600626069]
> [quote author=Matt link=topic=1775.msg21028#msg21028
date=1600623070]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1775.msg21025#msg21025
date=1600620276]
> Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed
with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and
enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would
have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear
and obvious error.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play
the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the
ball by Christian?
[/quote]
That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to
prevent the double jeopardy punishment...
[/quote]
Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless
of if there was an attempt to play the ball.
The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there
first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have
(and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)
When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get
much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card
- certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on
Sky or 5 Live.
[/quote]
But is most likely good enough for a red card? It has to be an
obvious goalscoring opportunity. For that to be the case Mane
would either have to have control, or obviously be about to gain
control, of the ball. It was not sufficiently obvious for me
that that was the case. It should have been a yellow card for
me
As an aside, Paul Tierney's position was such that he couldn't
make that call. He was directly behind the incident and failed
to give himself an angle to judge it.
[/quote]
I have some sympathy with this view and those who argue whether
it was a clear and obvious error or not.
Of the four considerations for DOGSO, I'd say three were
absolutely clear cut and those boxes could be ticked with
permanent marker pen. The one about control is one which is a
bit more subjective but personally I think the strong likelihood
(unless missing the ball etc.) is he would have gained control -
hence why I think the defender so cynically fouled him.
I think within the spirit of the game/law it felt like a red
card and there'd have been a lot more controversy if one hadn't
been given because it's what nearly everyone was expecting.
Oliver looked at it as VAR and Tierney as referee and with
benefit of replays both obviously thought it was red so I think
it was a reasonable decision/process as personally I'd certainly
say red card is a better decision than yellow card.
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