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#Post#: 20003--------------------------------------------------
The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: jad
Date: August 14, 2020, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To keep the Champions' League discussion on track, I'll add my
tuppence worth on the week's fun and games in Russia here.
As bmb says at one point, there were two separate incidents
involving disputed penalties in last week-end's first round of
fixtures.
1. Spartak vs FK Sochi: the visitors were able to gain a 2-2
draw thanks to two second-half penalties, but attention has
focused on the second, awarded in the 90th minute. Leonid
Fedun, the owner of Spartak, was so incensed by the decision
that he threatened to withdraw his team from the Russian Premier
League, though calmer counsels have now prevailed. The Russian
FA responded by suspending the match referee, Vasiliy Kazartsev,
sine die and by inviting him to take a lie-detector test, which
did indeed last for six hours. The VARista, Aleksey Es'kov, who
might have intervened, but didn't, is also under investigation.
The Expert Committee on refereeing has come out and described
the award of the penalty as a mistake. The background to all
this is that there are persistent rumours that the Premier
League is being rigged to favour teams with a St Petersburg
connection (Zenit, but also Sochi, who are owned by a St
Petersburg oligarch, who is particularly close to President
Putin) and (or so it is thought in Spartak-friendly circles) to
penalise Spartak. In this context one might conclude that the
lie-detector business has more to with dispelling suspicions
than with establishing the truth. It doesn't help that Mr
Kazartsev comes from St Petersburg. For what it's worth, my
view is the evidence for corruption is thin: I think it's more a
matter that Zenit have a lot of money and the Muscovites tend to
be suspicious of anything or anyone coming from St Petersburg.
The Sochi aspect depends on how you interpret a controversial,
but ambiguous incident from last season, which I won't bore you
with.
2. Rubin (Kazan') vs Lokomotiv (Moscow): Leonid Slutskiy, the
manager of the home team, sounded off about the failure of match
referee Sergey Ivanov to award his team a penalty, which would
have allowed them to equalise; instead the visitors scored a
second goal shortly afterwards. Mr Slutskiy did not threaten to
withdraw his team (it is not within his competence), but what he
did apparently do was to contact Bjorn Kuipers (whom he may know
from his time as a manager in the Netherlands) and quote Mr
Kuipers's comments or a version thereof. Which is now highly
likely to get both gentlemen into serious trouble. At least in
this instance there is no specific suggestion of corruption.
There is in both instances some concern about the failure on the
part of the respective VARistas to intervene, a failure that
seems particularly egregious in Spartak - Sochi case. The
suggestion is that VARistas, by adopting for whatever reason too
narrow an interpretation of 'a clear and obvious error' are not
properly applying the VAR protocol. I'm not sure that this
problem is unique to Russia.
#Post#: 20006--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 14, 2020, 11:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The VAR in the 1st game took a lie detector test yesterday so I
have been told.
Leonid Arnoldovich: "If the referee's bullying continues, we are
ready to leave the football field." <------- yet continual
false allegations of corruption against referees who keep
passing lie detector tests is apparently not bullying! I would
dock them 3 points every time a referee they have falsely
accused of corruption passes a lie detector test myself!
Mikhail Grushevsky - in an article on sport.express.ru
HTML https://www.sport-express.ru/football/rfpl/reviews/izvestnyy-bolelschik-cska-mihail-grushevskiy-raznes-sudey-kazarceva-ivanova-i-eskova-intervyu-1700625/<br
/>
Eskov's references to the VAR work protocol. A mysterious
document that no one has seen. In my opinion, talking about this
protocol disavows the very essence of the VAR! <--- that's the
protocol as laid out in the LOTG by IFAB
- Indeed, why do we need a VAR, if it is impossible to tell the
referee directly whether he was wrong or not?
- I will reformulate - why do we need a VAR if it helps cheat?
The VAR must correct refereeing errors in key episodes. Without
stupid reservations and vague phrases that leave loopholes for
cheating - "obvious" mistakes, "non-obvious ..."
Any injustice must be reversed! A good example is the last match
of the Europa League, Inter - Bayer. It was the VAR that saved
the German team from two unfairly awarded penalties - both for
handball. Although, according to Kaloshin's logic, this is not
an obvious mistake of the judge, and the VAR should not have
intervened. But he intervened!
This means that Eskov in the 90th minute could have said to
Kazartsev: “Vasya, you are wrong. Re-watch the episode "?
Instead, he exposed a colleague to popular anger and curses.
Kazartsev's attempts to beat him in pity look extremely
unconvincing. But!
He goes on to say "My opinion is that if a person cheats, he
should be driven out of refereeing with a nasty broom". - this
is after yet another passed lie detector test although he was
referring to Ivanov not Kazartsev at that point, I think. Even
so it shows they just discard the fact that the referees have
passed these tests.
#Post#: 20062--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 15, 2020, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: jad link ---
>
> 1. Spartak vs FK Sochi: the visitors were able to gain a 2-2
draw thanks to two second-half penalties, but attention has
focused on the second, awarded in the 90th minute. Leonid
Fedun, the owner of Spartak, was so incensed by the decision
that he threatened to withdraw his team from the Russian Premier
League, though calmer counsels have now prevailed. The Russian
FA responded by suspending the match referee, Vasiliy Kazartsev,
sine die and by inviting him to take a lie-detector test, which
did indeed last for six hours. The VARista, Aleksey Es'kov, who
might have intervened, but didn't, is also under investigation.
The Expert Committee on refereeing has come out and described
the award of the penalty as a mistake. The background to all
this is that there are persistent rumours that the Premier
League is being rigged to favour teams with a St Petersburg
connection (Zenit, but also Sochi, who are owned by a St
Petersburg oligarch, who is particularly close to President
Putin) and (or so it is thought in Spartak-friendly circles) to
penalise Spartak. In this context one might conclude that the
lie-detector business has more to with dispelling suspicions
than with establishing the truth. It doesn't help that Mr
Kazartsev comes from St Petersburg. For what it's worth, my
view is the evidence for corruption is thin: I think it's more a
matter that Zenit have a lot of money and the Muscovites tend to
be suspicious of anything or anyone coming from St Petersburg.
The Sochi aspect depends on how you interpret a controversial,
but ambiguous incident from last season, which I won't bore you
with.
>
> ...
>
> There is in both instances some concern about the failure on
the part of the respective VARistas to intervene, a failure that
seems particularly egregious in Spartak - Sochi case. The
suggestion is that VARistas, by adopting for whatever reason too
narrow an interpretation of 'a clear and obvious error' are not
properly applying the VAR protocol. I'm not sure that this
problem is unique to Russia.
>
--- End Quote ---
Communication between referees and the VAR room
VAR: “Wow! The goalkeeper is nicely protected. ”
Eskov : "He hit him with his foot."
VAR: "What did you do?"
VAR: "Corner or something else?"
VAR : "What did you do?"
Kazarcev: “Flat shot, then hits Gigot”
VAR: “He gave the penalty. The referee awarded a penalty. ”
Kazarcev to the players on the pitch: “Check! Control!"
Eskov : "I can't undo it." I can't not reverse this
Kazarcev to the players on the pitch: “Check! Control!"
Deep air intakes in the VAR center.
Kazarcev : “He kicked the ball, Gigot kicked it. Check!
The monitor operator / operator repeats, "Did you see that too?"
Eskov : “Yes, do it ***”
VAR : “If you made the decision…”
The monitor operator repeats: “There is another shot from
behind…”
VAR : “It can be viewed from another angle”
Eskov : “ Add… I immediately saw that he missed a beat ”
Kazarcev to the players on the field:“ Stay there! ”
Kazarcev : “Check in progress”
Reserve referee : “Next time it’s not”
VAR : “The referee made the decision”
Kazarcev to the reserve referee about the overtime: “What,
Garik?”
Reserve referee: “Five minutes”
VAR : “Here it is, look at this”
Eskov : “He kicked his foot… Basil!”
Kazercev : "I'm here, I'm watching !"
Eskov : "I confirm the verdict, 11 may come"
Kazarcev : "Thank you, let's move on!"
Eskov : “Verification complete”
It was described as confusing - probably even more so now! The
original Russian transcript was translated into Hungarian, which
is what I was sent & now I have translated it into English so I
cannot guarantee 100% accuracy!
#Post#: 20132--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: jad
Date: August 17, 2020, 8:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The journey from Russian to English via Hungarian has resulted
in one significant mistake creeping in. The line where Es'kov
supposedly says: 'I can't undo it' in the original says
precisely the opposite: 'I have no alternative but to reverse
the decision (literally: I can't not reverse this). Still,
what's a negative particle between friends, except that here it
transpires that Es'kov changed his mind, presumably after
viewing the incident from the second angle.
It appears that this week-end's second round of fixtures passed
off without major incident, though with much use of VAR.
#Post#: 20137--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 17, 2020, 8:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: jad link ---
>
> It appears that this week-end's second round of fixtures
passed off without major incident, though with much use of VAR.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank goodness!
#Post#: 20403--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: guest3
Date: August 29, 2020, 2:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
A small update.
Apparently, after 5 hours of questioning, VAR Alexey Eskov
failed the lie detector test and could now be banned for life.
HTML https://twitter.com/arturpetrosyan/status/1292762059088842752
#Post#: 20409--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 29, 2020, 7:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: edy link ---
>
> A small update.
>
> Apparently, after 5 hours of questioning, VAR Alexey Eskov
failed the lie detector test and could now be banned for life.
>
>
HTML https://twitter.com/arturpetrosyan/status/1292762059088842752
>
--- End Quote ---
As he should be IF he's dishonest/corrupt.
The failure though came when he was being asked questions about
a completely different game Rostov - Ufa and not in relation to
this game. Not 100% sure where that leaves him as he appears to
have been honest in relation to this game at least!
#Post#: 20446--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: jad
Date: August 31, 2020, 7:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Russia is not, let us say, a country exactly renowned for the
scrupulous observation of due process, but even allowing for
that, banning a referee merely for giving a wrong answer in a
lie-detector test does seem a little extreme, and I gather from
an article in Sport-Ekspress that it is far from certain that
this will happen. I gather from the same article that in the
first account it was stated that both referees had passed the
test and that there are various unofficial versions circulating
on social media relating to the alleged wrong answer.
Since you are, in my view, more likely to find out the truth by
studying chicken entrails, I tend to consider these lie-detector
tests an exercise in public relations, designed to deliver the
answer they first thought of. Which raises the question: did
something on this occasion go awry, or was the negative answer
the result they first thought of? We may find out more this
week.
#Post#: 20525--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: jad
Date: September 3, 2020, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Chair of the refereeing committee of the Russian FA has
announced punishments that have been inflicted on certain
officials deemed to have committed serious errors. Vasiliy
Kazartsev, referee of he notorious Spartak – Sochi game, has
been suspended until 10 October. Thereafter he will referee in
the second tier with the possibility of returning to the top
tier in due course if his performances are judged to reach the
required standard. Two other referees, Aleksey Sukhoy and
Vladimir Moskalyov, who officiated at a game between Rotor
(Volgograd) and Spartak, have each been suspended for a month.
Aleksey Eskov, the VARista at the Spartak – Sochi game, is to
take a break at his own request. Incidentally, it has now been
stated that the results of his lie detector test were ambiguous.
Which is the third version to appear, though it should be the
last, since I can't think of any further possibilities.
Useless information corner: I have never seen Aleksey Es'kov in
action, but I discovered this week that I saw his uncle, also
Aleskey Eskov, play for SKA Rostov in the early 1970s. He was,
as I remember, one of the more accomplished members of a pretty
undistinguished team.
#Post#: 20530--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Russian scandal(s)
DIR By: bmb
Date: September 3, 2020, 1:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the update Jad.
Hard to establish the truth re Eskov, as you say we have now had
reports of all 3 possible outcomes of the lie detector test. I
would hope those that really need to know actually know which
version is correct. If he is innocent of any wrongdoing then the
mental strain he is under must be immense. If nothing else I
hope his mental health is being looked after.
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