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#Post#: 19003--------------------------------------------------
Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: July 13, 2020, 3:29 am
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I am obviously biased but I have to say I thought Palace were
hard done by with an early goal ruled out for 'accidental
handball' by Sakho when the TV replays showed that the ball hit
his shoulder rather than upper arm. Peter Walton in The Times
agrees and points out that the present interpretation of the law
does not define where the shoulder ends and the arm begins, so
it is up to the officials to make a subjective call. And the PL
are not implementing the 'T-shirt line' to define where the
shoulder ends until next season, so more reason for Villa to
feel lucky. VAR was John Moss and in my view he was wrong in
this instance. The goal looked good and should have been
allowed. I have no problem with the red card shown after the
final whistle to Benteke, a kick out at a Villa player ending
Benteke's forgettable season prematurely.
#Post#: 19005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: AG1983
Date: July 13, 2020, 3:40 am
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I'm a Villa fan, and was absolutely amazed that Sakho's goal was
ruled out. I was equally amazed (as has been noted on appts
thread) that Moss was the VAR given he was the referee in the
previous game giving a penalty that has been agreed shouldn't
have been given (and changed the whole game). Was this call his
way of evening the scores?
Moss was also kept busy, overruling the penalty given against
Grealish. Don't have a problem with that one, with Grealish not
helping himself with the extravagant way he fell to the floor.
Subsequent review for potential penalty against Dann for
handball. Whilst personally I don't like the handball rule, the
way it is enforced I was surprised that it wasn't overturned and
a penalty awarded.
From my perspective 1 out of 3 right from the VAR booth. Also
struggle to see how Atkinson is supposed to justify the
decisions to the players based on what he is told in his ear
without using the monitor which would at least help sell the
decision, and that he's in agreement.
#Post#: 19007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: July 13, 2020, 4:25 am
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Good point about the monitor AG1983. Martin could and should
have used the monitor for the Sakho goal that was disallowed for
'accidental handball', particularly as there was no query
whatsoever about the validity of the goal from the players or
indeed Martin himself. Comments (above) from Peter Walton
suggest to me that current officials should be relieved of VAR
duties and their place taken by former SG1 or SG2 refs such as
Walton, Swarbrick and so on, as previously suggested on this
site.
#Post#: 19008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: ajb95
Date: July 13, 2020, 4:42 am
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If it came off the shoulder since when has that been handball??
Or are the rules now that any part of the arm from the neck to
the fingers.
Ludicrous
#Post#: 19014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: reflector
Date: July 13, 2020, 5:49 am
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--- Quote from: AG1983 link ---
>
> I'm a Villa fan, and was absolutely amazed that Sakho's goal
was ruled out. I was equally amazed (as has been noted on appts
thread) that Moss was the VAR given he was the referee in the
previous game giving a penalty that has been agreed shouldn't
have been given (and changed the whole game). Was this call his
way of evening the scores?
>
--- End Quote ---
The very reason why it's unhealthy to have the same officials
handling the same clubs too often, whether on field or in the
Stockley Park bunker. Although I have little time for Mr Moss,
I am sure he is too experienced to be evening things up but it
does put unnecessary pressure on him and gives ammunition to
those who think that he might.
#Post#: 19028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: rustyref
Date: July 13, 2020, 11:03 am
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Under next season's laws there is no way that could be handball,
but it is a lot less clear this season as to where the shoulder
ends and the arm starts. I think it probably did hit both
shoulder and arm but I would certainly agree with the view that
the attacker should get the benefit of any doubt when it is that
tight.
#Post#: 19029--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: July 13, 2020, 11:37 am
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New clarification for handball next season should help a bit
although I'm sure there will still be times the pictures are
inconclusive.
Martin Atkinson was never going to look at the monitor for the
disallowed goal this season under PGMO directives but the point
about being able to explain to players is a good one - I was
watching Inside Video Review recently and by going to the
monitor for penalty encroachment the referee was able to explain
to the players exactly where the goalkeeper was positioned -
about 4 mins 30 here
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W__1pVN3EdY
I think Jon Moss reversing the Aston Villa penalty decision was
one of the best VAR decisions in the PL this season and an
example of why I don't think a strict time limit would work
because it took a bit of time to find the best camera angle to
show it.
#Post#: 19030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: Leggy
Date: July 13, 2020, 12:30 pm
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--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> New clarification for handball next season should help a bit
although I'm sure there will still be times the pictures are
inconclusive.
>
> Martin Atkinson was never going to look at the monitor for the
disallowed goal this season under PGMO directives but the point
about being able to explain to players is a good one - I was
watching Inside Video Review recently and by going to the
monitor for penalty encroachment the referee was able to explain
to the players exactly where the goalkeeper was positioned -
about 4 mins 30 here
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W__1pVN3EdY
>
> I think Jon Moss reversing the Aston Villa penalty decision
was one of the best VAR decisions in the PL this season and an
example of why I don't think a strict time limit would work
because it took a bit of time to find the best camera angle to
show it.
>
--- End Quote ---
There will still be doubt / controversy next season. As the
"line" is not drawn people sill see an incident and some will
say it is one side of the "tee-shirt line" and other will call
it the other way. Its the same with offside - if you give the
attacker (say) six inches of leeway, then there will always be
an offside where the attacker is 6.01 inches offside.
Wherever you draw the line - unless you draw an actual and real
line - there will be controversy.
#Post#: 19033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: guest379
Date: July 13, 2020, 2:27 pm
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Let's start with the positive. Great call to rule out the Villa
penalty as Grealish initiated the contact. Would love to see
this overrule way more than it currently happens. Makes it
strange the same referee on the VAR, Mr Moss, decided Fernandes
was fouled at Villa Park on Thursday night!
The Sakho handball is a diabolical joke. Not one person
honestly thinks that's handball - it hits his shoulder, maybe
even a part of his back for goodness sake! What was Mr Moss
looking at ?????
#Post#: 19048--------------------------------------------------
Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: July 13, 2020, 4:53 pm
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It was interesting to hear Dermot Gallagher say on Sky that the
part of his body he pointed to when trying to say the goal
should stand was actually considered part of the arm so perhaps
he undid himself after scoring!
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