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#Post#: 18874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: bmb
Date: July 10, 2020, 9:56 am
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Dale Johnson makes a lot of good tweets regarding VAR & the LOTG
in general.
#Post#: 18876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: bmb
Date: July 10, 2020, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Halsey is claiming Tierney had a clear view of the Kane
incident and referees at that level shouldn't be getting it
wrong.
>
--- End Quote ---
This thing about claiming the referee had a perfect view is
rubbish imo. The only person who knows exactly what their view
was is the referee themself. Looking at their position in
relation to an incident does not take into account where they
are actually looking, have their eyes flickered to the side
because a movement has distracted them? Are they looking to the
side/behind the incident? Is there something impeding their
vision that's not so obvious from the camera view you are using
of where they are standing? You can't tell what their view
actually is just by looking at where they are in relation to an
incident. Even an inch to the left or right and it's a totally
different view anyway.
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Your comment about 'correct' and 'wrong' decisions also
strikes a chord. Not having seen the Kane incident live, I must
confess when I saw it first time at full speed later, I wasn't
totally convinced - a coming together of players going for the
ball, a bit of a melee you sometimes see from corner kicks with
players bumping into each other. That probably says more about
my eyesight and brain however! Watching it in slo-mo and then
again at full speed, yes, it clearly should have been a penalty
for a definite push in the back.
>
--- End Quote ---
From 1 camera angle it looked like the other Spurs player had
knocked into King, causing him to fall forward, and into Kane.
That was not the case as other camera angles proved. How do we
know though if Tierney's view gave a similar impression to that
1 camera angle? We don't is the answer but it could be the case.
That is why he should then be given the opportunity to see the
incident from other views and decide for himself if his 1st
impression was correct or not.
I would love to see a TV company do an "experiment" maybe on a
high profile pre season match where the referee has either a
body camera or a gopro camera on his head and then compare the
view from his camera with the view from the TV cameras. I think
a lot of people would be surprised with how very different the
view would be.
#Post#: 18877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: July 10, 2020, 10:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Fan link=topic=1604.msg18861#msg18861
date=1594386986]
> Halsey is claiming Tierney had a clear view of the Kane
incident and referees at that level shouldn't be getting it
wrong.
>
--- End Quote ---
This thing about claiming the referee had a perfect view is
rubbish imo. The only person who knows exactly what their view
was is the referee themself. Looking at their position in
relation to an incident does not take into account where they
are actually looking, have their eyes flickered to the side
because a movement has distracted them? Are they looking to the
side/behind the incident? Is there something impeding their
vision that's not so obvious from the camera view you are using
of where they are standing? You can't tell what their view
actually is just by looking at where they are in relation to an
incident. Even an inch to the left or right and it's a totally
different view anyway.
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Your comment about 'correct' and 'wrong' decisions also
strikes a chord. Not having seen the Kane incident live, I must
confess when I saw it first time at full speed later, I wasn't
totally convinced - a coming together of players going for the
ball, a bit of a melee you sometimes see from corner kicks with
players bumping into each other. That probably says more about
my eyesight and brain however! Watching it in slo-mo and then
again at full speed, yes, it clearly should have been a penalty
for a definite push in the back.
>
--- End Quote ---
From 1 camera angle it looked like the other Spurs player had
knocked into King, causing him to fall forward, and into Kane.
That was not the case as other camera angles proved. How do we
know though if Tierney's view gave a similar impression to that
1 camera angle? We don't is the answer but it could be the case.
That is why he should then be given the opportunity to see the
incident from other views and decide for himself if his 1st
impression was correct or not.
I would love to see a TV company do an "experiment" maybe on a
high profile pre season match where the referee has either a
body camera or a gopro camera on his head and then compare the
view from his camera with the view from the TV cameras. I think
a lot of people would be surprised with how very different the
view would be.
[/quote]
The referees in the Super League wear a camera on their head and
their view is sometimes shown on the tv and is sometimes
difficult to reconcile with the view of the other cameras.
#Post#: 18878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: July 10, 2020, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The experiment I'd like to see is a group of pundits/fans/VAR
critics like Halsey and Hackett put into a separate room by
themselves and told to give a clear decision they'd make as a
VAR for each incident. I think it would be interesting to see if
they all came up with similar decisions (and if these were
generally regarded as being the 'right' one) or if part of it is
a consensus verdict developing as time passes by after an
incident and people can hear the views of others and be
influenced a bit by that.
it does seem to me that with most VAR decisions the
co-commentators are often very much 'on the fence' to begin
with. Even listening to Alan Smith on the Bournemouth V Spurs
game last night, I got the sense initially he wasn't convinced
it was a penalty.
#Post#: 18880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: Hendo
Date: July 10, 2020, 11:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dave26 link ---
>
> Has David Coote done any VAR duties since the restart ? He
seemed to cause a stir when on VAR duty before lockdown
>
--- End Quote ---
3 that I can see. West Han v Wolves, Spurs v West Ham and Aston
Villa v Wolves
#Post#: 18882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: TVOS
Date: July 10, 2020, 11:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: They Are Getting Worse link ---
>
> 4 minutes in and already a VAR ****-up. Josh King with a
clear two-handed push on the back of Harry Kane in the box,
Tierney gives nothing, Michael Oliver (the same official who
gave 2 big decisions incorrectly against Spurs last Thursday)
also gives nothing. It is quite staggering. I actually cannot
see how that is not a clear foul, a clear charge in the back!
>
> One wonders what the outcome would have been for Liverpool or
United - how many penalties are they on now out of interest?
>
--- End Quote ---
Spurs might get more penalties if they got into the penalty area
as often as United do.
#Post#: 18883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: July 10, 2020, 12:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TVOS link ---
>
> [quote author=They Are Getting Worse
link=topic=1604.msg18802#msg18802 date=1594314575]
> 4 minutes in and already a VAR ****-up. Josh King with a
clear two-handed push on the back of Harry Kane in the box,
Tierney gives nothing, Michael Oliver (the same official who
gave 2 big decisions incorrectly against Spurs last Thursday)
also gives nothing. It is quite staggering. I actually cannot
see how that is not a clear foul, a clear charge in the back!
>
> One wonders what the outcome would have been for Liverpool or
United - how many penalties are they on now out of interest?
>
--- End Quote ---
Spurs might get more penalties if they got into the penalty area
as often as United do.
[/quote]
Or get Deli Alli back in the team!
#Post#: 18884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: July 10, 2020, 12:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Day 1 of the current test, five times an umpires decision was
reviewed and it was overturned by the 3rd umpire.
I cheered the sixth when the on-field aligned with the 3rd.
It may not feel good for the on-field umpire to have all of his
decisions overturned, that he has made "as he saw them", but at
least the cricketers have the confidence of knowing that they
have the mutually agreeable decision.
We don't get that in football because, for whatever reason, the
VAR officials don't (or very rarely) overturn the on-field
officials' decision when it is required.
#Post#: 18885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: July 10, 2020, 12:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> Day 1 of the current test, five times an umpires decision was
reviewed and it was overturned by the 3rd umpire.
> I cheered the sixth when the on-field aligned with the 3rd.
> It may not feel good for the on-field umpire to have all of
his decisions overturned, that he has made "as he saw them", but
at least the cricketers have the confidence of knowing that they
have the mutually agreeable decision.
> We don't get that in football because, for whatever reason,
the VAR officials don't (or very rarely) overturn the on-field
officials' decision when it is required.
>
--- End Quote ---
All the decisions were black and white though and met the
criteria laid down so we all knew that it was either right or
wrong. Sadly, football is not like that and, even with VAR, it
is still just another opinion except for offside which can be
seen to be black and white, however, even that is open to
question because of the frame speed ---so I am told!
I do think that we have lost sight of the fact that football is
only a game and is there to be enjoyed by those playing, those
officiating and those watching. I have to admit that,
particularly since VAR was introduced, the enjoyment of watching
the game has diminished from my own point of view, however, I am
getting on in years so what do I know.
#Post#: 18886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paul Tierney - Bournemouth vs. Tottenham
DIR By: rustyref
Date: July 10, 2020, 12:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Halsey and Hackett are both bitter and will say whatever they
think will make them look best. They have both missed far more
blatant penalties than the push on Kane so I wouldn't give their
comments much if any credence.
I've said for a long time, VAR needs to be telling referees to
go and look at the monitor. Until that happens we will keep
getting situations like this as no referee wants to tell another
they have got it wrong, whereas if they were able to say "I
think you might have given a penalty if you'd have the view I've
seen, I'd suggest you go and have a look" we then have the same
referee that potentially made the mistake correcting it.
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