DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 15387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 4, 2020, 7:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JohnCoyle link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=1352.msg15379#msg15379
date=1580812773]
> The idea of using former referees could be considered but I'm
not sure the problems lie in that area and that suddenly
everything will be working well.
>
> You can say there's a shortage of top referees but in the main
the major difference it's made to SG1 referees is they're now
VARs rather than Fourth Officials. UEFA/FIFA also seem to prefer
using current referees so you'd need at least some to be doing
PL VAR regularly.
>
> Who are these former officials who are going to come back and
do it? Are they really going to be any better than those who've
had training and seminars on it for the last 3 years? Are they
going to be in touch with current laws and interpretations?
>
--- End Quote ---
Surely former referees who become observers/ coaches/ assessors
must remain conversant with the current laws etc? It's just one
step further to bring them up to speed with the VAR protocols.
[/quote]
But then that's presuming those people want to become VARs and
presumably if they do you'd have to find other people to replace
them in their current positions.
And fundamentally it's presuming they'd be better as VARs than
current referees who've received the training.
Many referees in the PGMO are late 40s/early 50s - Moss, Mason,
Friend, Atkinson, Marriner, Dean, Scott. If VAR had been
introduced a few years later and they'd happen to have retired,
they seem exactly the sort of people who would be advocated to
operate as VARs.
I agree that VAR is a specialist position and it's not
necessarily the case that the best VARs will make the best
referees and vice versa - although equally in some instances it
probably is. I'm just not sure that suddenly having people make
decisions who haven't refereed for 5 or 10 years is suddenly
going to result in major improvements.
#Post#: 15388--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 4, 2020, 8:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps a longer term solution could be to start using those who
are close to retirement and train them to be VAR specialists
ahead of their retirement & then keep them on as the VAR's as
they retire. Some of them could also participate in assisting
with training/providing experience for the FIFA referees who
will need VAR experience both on the pitch and in the booth in
order to get UEFA appointments. It's not a quick fix solution
obviously but if it's started off now with those close to
retirement, in the next year or 2 it will start to fully take
shape.
#Post#: 15389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: February 4, 2020, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Did I read somewhere that the VARs have to still be current
regarding the annual fitness tests? Not sure if that is an IFAB
ruling or another FA dictat?
#Post#: 15393--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 4, 2020, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> Did I read somewhere that the VARs have to still be current
regarding the annual fitness tests? Not sure if that is an IFAB
ruling or another FA dictat?
>
--- End Quote ---
Silly if true. It's not like they are going to take over in a
game like a 4O/AAR would is it? Keeping them current on the
LOTG, as done with observers/assessors, I can understand but not
fitness.
#Post#: 15394--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: February 4, 2020, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> Did I read somewhere that the VARs have to still be current
regarding the annual fitness tests? Not sure if that is an IFAB
ruling or another FA dictat?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes and therein lies the current problem, and unless this
decision is reviewed and reversed, we will not achieve the
sensible suggestion that bmb (and others) have made. Swarbrick,
Jones, Probert and East are all respected recently retired PL
refs who would undoubtedly have made good VARs without the need
to pound 100 metres in 10 seconds, or whatever, at the start of
each season.
#Post#: 15395--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 4, 2020, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=1352.msg15389#msg15389
date=1580828575]
> Did I read somewhere that the VARs have to still be current
regarding the annual fitness tests? Not sure if that is an IFAB
ruling or another FA dictat?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes and therein lies the current problem, and unless this
decision is reviewed and reversed, we will not achieve the
sensible suggestion that bmb (and others) have made. Swarbrick,
Jones, Probert and East are all respected recently retired PL
refs who would undoubtedly have made good VARs without the need
to pound 100 metres in 10 seconds, or whatever, at the start of
each season.
[/quote]
I'm not sure it can be said 'undoubtedly'. I can think of some
very poor decisions that Jones/Probert made when they were VARs
and I don't think East was ever used as a VAR in the two seasons
he was there with it being in operation. I think Swarbrick/Jones
hold management positions of some capacity within the PGMO now
so again not sure they'd want to return to be a standard VAR.
I wonder if part of the decision for making VARs be current
referees is the concern that some of the best on-field referees
might just choose to retire if there was a VAR role waiting for
them?
#Post#: 15427--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: JohnCoyle
Date: February 5, 2020, 10:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> Perhaps a longer term solution could be to start using those
who are close to retirement and train them to be VAR specialists
ahead of their retirement & then keep them on as the VAR's as
they retire. Some of them could also participate in assisting
with training/providing experience for the FIFA referees who
will need VAR experience both on the pitch and in the booth in
order to get UEFA appointments. It's not a quick fix solution
obviously but if it's started off now with those close to
retirement, in the next year or 2 it will start to fully take
shape.
>
--- End Quote ---
That seems an excellent idea. Incidentally, I don't think there
is any reason why being an assessor/ observer and a VAR should
be mutually exclusive.
#Post#: 15430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 5, 2020, 10:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JohnCoyle link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=1352.msg15388#msg15388
date=1580826712]
> Perhaps a longer term solution could be to start using those
who are close to retirement and train them to be VAR specialists
ahead of their retirement & then keep them on as the VAR's as
they retire. Some of them could also participate in assisting
with training/providing experience for the FIFA referees who
will need VAR experience both on the pitch and in the booth in
order to get UEFA appointments. It's not a quick fix solution
obviously but if it's started off now with those close to
retirement, in the next year or 2 it will start to fully take
shape.
>
--- End Quote ---
That seems an excellent idea. Incidentally, I don't think there
is any reason why being an assessor/ observer and a VAR should
be mutually exclusive.
[/quote]
I'm not sure being part of a referee's team i nthe VAR studio
one week and then assessing/observing him another would work
very well. I thin kthey needs to be a great measure of
objectivity on assessing/observing which might not be easy if
you were also part of the officiating team on occasions.
Very good idea about training those close to retirement for
specialist VAR roles
#Post#: 15432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 5, 2020, 10:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=JohnCoyle link=topic=1352.msg15427#msg15427
date=1580918996]
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=1352.msg15388#msg15388
date=1580826712]
> Perhaps a longer term solution could be to start using those
who are close to retirement and train them to be VAR specialists
ahead of their retirement & then keep them on as the VAR's as
they retire. Some of them could also participate in assisting
with training/providing experience for the FIFA referees who
will need VAR experience both on the pitch and in the booth in
order to get UEFA appointments. It's not a quick fix solution
obviously but if it's started off now with those close to
retirement, in the next year or 2 it will start to fully take
shape.
>
--- End Quote ---
That seems an excellent idea. Incidentally, I don't think there
is any reason why being an assessor/ observer and a VAR should
be mutually exclusive.
[/quote]
I'm not sure being part of a referee's team i nthe VAR studio
one week and then assessing/observing him another would work
very well. I thin kthey needs to be a great measure of
objectivity on assessing/observing which might not be easy if
you were also part of the officiating team on occasions.
Very good idea about training those close to retirement for
specialist VAR roles
[/quote]
Fixed the quote thingamajigga for you!
I wonder if perhaps being a bit more objective and thinking more
like an assessor/observer when acting as VAR would actually
help.
One of the many(!) complaints seems to be that some feel there
is a reluctance to overturn an on field decision of a colleague
particularly when their roles may be swapped over the next week,
personally I'd not think that is something conscious on the part
of any of our referees, these are professional guys but maybe a
subconscious element of I don't know 'what if I was out there &
he was in here, would I have called the same in real time, would
I accept the VAR calling it wrong etc' type of thing is there.
Maybe it's not and people are just looking for excuses/offering
up suggestions as to why things rarely get overturned.
If VAR's looked at things with more of an assessor/observer
mindset that element would be gone (if it's even there). They
are already more detached and look at decisions simply as
right/wrong as a matter of course with no emotional attachment
(for want of a better expression) with the on field officiating
team.
Do you understand what I mean? Just throwing out a what if type
of suggestion anyway
#Post#: 15435--------------------------------------------------
Re: Decisions - weekend 1/2 February
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 5, 2020, 12:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Presumably if current assessors became VARs then they themselves
would need to be assessed on the decisions they had made.
The pool of people doing the jobs would presumably also have to
increase to cover the relevant positions.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page