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#Post#: 14209--------------------------------------------------
A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: December 29, 2019, 2:40 pm
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Just back from Anfield having my enjoyment spoiled by the farce
that is VAR but without seeing replays I’ve no idea what was
going on. I only pay to get in so I don’t matter. I know it
worked in Liverpool’s favour but that’s irrelevant; this site
isn’t about club allegiances.
I rate Anthony Taylor as one of our best referees. Many of my
fellow Kopites dislike him for his perceived Manchester bias but
I don’t prescribe to that nonsense.
I genuinely felt sorry for him today. His authority was
undermined by VAR and from having complete control he was
challenged by Wolves players after the goal was given-even
though he said no goal-and it seemed the Wolves players’ respect
disappeared. In the second half I thought he was unusually
diffident (fouls on Mane and Origi he clearly missed) and didn’t
look his normal confident self. Too many games could be a
problem but I believe VAR is battering the confidence of
referees. Martin Atkinson looks similarly weary of it all.
Perhaps this should be in the VAR thread but it is absolutely
ruining football.
#Post#: 14212--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: Mackem ref
Date: December 29, 2019, 2:53 pm
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Whilst I haven’t seen any highlights from the match, I want to
pick up on your point about authority being undermined. I firmly
believe that the referees should be using the monitors to make
decisions - that way it is still their decision and ensures they
are still the authority on the pitch. For me, VAR worked well in
the 2018 World Cup and, as far as I’m aware, is in operation
fairly successfully in many other domestic leagues. Why then, I
ask, do the authorities in this country have to do things
differently? All they have done is turn this season into an
absolute farce and made our top referees look silly. Why the
powers that be continue to slog away with their poor
interpretation of how this technology should be used instead of
listening to fans, players, managers and pundits alike is way
beyond my understanding!
#Post#: 14214--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 29, 2019, 2:59 pm
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People, be that managers, players, pundits, supporters, etc,
continually bemoaned refereeing decisions and demanded
technology. They have that now but are now moaning that the
decisions aren't going their way or that the game is being
slowed down. But that was always going to happen with VAR and
we shouldn't forget that the same people that were demanding it
are now moaning about it.
For the Liverpool goal he made a clear and obvious error, he
gave handball but the ball clearly hit Lallana on the shoulder
and VAR was always going to overrule that. I know that Wolves
were unhappy about a potential earlier handball by Van Dyke, but
that isn't what Taylor penalised and VAR couldn't be sure if it
had hit Van Dyke's arm anyway.
#Post#: 14216--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 29, 2019, 3:04 pm
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--- Quote from: Mackem ref link ---
>
> Whilst I haven’t seen any highlights from the match, I want to
pick up on your point about authority being undermined. I firmly
believe that the referees should be using the monitors to make
decisions - that way it is still their decision and ensures they
are still the authority on the pitch. For me, VAR worked well in
the 2018 World Cup and, as far as I’m aware, is in operation
fairly successfully in many other domestic leagues. Why then, I
ask, do the authorities in this country have to do things
differently? All they have done is turn this season into an
absolute farce and made our top referees look silly. Why the
powers that be continue to slog away with their poor
interpretation of how this technology should be used instead of
listening to fans, players, managers and pundits alike is way
beyond my understanding!
>
--- End Quote ---
The clubs said that they didn't want pitch side reviews, and
that view was seemingly reiterated at the clubs and PGMOL
meeting last month. This is the problem, everyone wants
perfection but without slowing the game down, and that clearly
isn't going to happen.
This strikes me as akin to complaining that people are speeding
in their cars outside your house and demanding action, then
complaining again once speed cameras are installed and you get
caught by them. People wanted VAR to get 100% of decisions
correct, but now they have VAR they are unhappy as it is slowing
the game down and in some cases going against their teams.
#Post#: 14217--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: December 29, 2019, 3:10 pm
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For the record I never wanted VAR and I want it even less now.
#Post#: 14219--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 29, 2019, 3:19 pm
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The decisions today were matter of fact so no real need for a
pitchside monitor in that case.
I think the first goal was a perfect use of VAR. It clearly
wasn't handball when you looked at replays so the goal was
correctly given.
#Post#: 14233--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: December 29, 2019, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> The decisions today were matter of fact so no real need for a
pitchside monitor in that case.
>
> I think the first goal was a perfect use of VAR. It clearly
wasn't handball when you looked at replays so the goal was
correctly given.
>
--- End Quote ---
If it had happened in the Championship, the division which gives
access to the PL, the goal would have been disallowed on the
referee's decision and play would have continued with the usual
moans and groans. Likewise, the Wolves goal would have been
allowed because the AR did not consider that there was an
offside, I don't think that anyone would have questioned this
either.
This is my main gripe about VAR because it differentiates
between football in the PL and elsewhere in the EFL, thus making
the PL more important than any other games played in the EFL or
Pyramid System etc.
This is saying to officials involved in these leagues that they
are officiating at a level that does not matter at all, however,
don't get promoted because you will matter even less when VAR
takes over from you.
I am fed up of managers, pundits, the media and lots of fans
moaning about VAR.
FIFA and the PL wanted it, the managers wanted it, it is
reported that PGMOL wanted it and many fans wanted it so please
just accept what it comes up with and don't moan. You wanted
perfection in a game where it just isn't possible so please
don't argue with VAR ---it is 100% correct --it must be because
it is technology and so important to so many in the modern era,
#Post#: 14234--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 29, 2019, 5:32 pm
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There is no intrinsic merit in law or Laws, they are to serve a
utilitarian purpose of justice which is a virtue in its own
right. The offside Law was brought in to serve a purpose, that
purpose in my opinion is not being served by making
adjudications of millimetres based on dubious camera angles.
There is a view currently held by some in the game that the
offside Law should be changed in that if any part of an
attacker's body is level with any part of the last defender then
it is onside. That is a view I wholeheartedly support and I hope
such a revision to the Law will be made.
#Post#: 14238--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: December 29, 2019, 6:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> People, be that managers, players, pundits, supporters, etc,
continually bemoaned refereeing decisions and demanded
technology. They have that now but are now moaning that the
decisions aren't going their way or that the game is being
slowed down. But that was always going to happen with VAR and
we shouldn't forget that the same people that were demanding it
are now moaning about it.
>
> For the Liverpool goal he made a clear and obvious error, he
gave handball but the ball clearly hit Lallana on the shoulder
and VAR was always going to overrule that. I know that Wolves
were unhappy about a potential earlier handball by Van Dyke, but
that isn't what Taylor penalised and VAR couldn't be sure if it
had hit Van Dyke's arm anyway.
>
--- End Quote ---
The question should be why VAR couldn't tell whether the ball
hit Van Dyke's arm given it was in the middle of the pitch with
no other players in the vicinity blocking camera views (in Sky's
main game so there would be multiple cameras in use). That was
the build up to the goal (3 touches later the ball was in the
net).
Second picture
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7835085/Conor-Coady-rants-VAR-Wolves-equaliser-chalked-off.html
#Post#: 14241--------------------------------------------------
Re: A. Taylor: Liverpool v Wolves
DIR By: RCG
Date: December 30, 2019, 1:28 am
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The issue with saying "any contact with the hand that leads to a
goal" is creating a 2 tier application of law. The referee may
deem a handball on the pitch to be accidental but if that player
delivers the cross that is converted into a goal it is being
ruled out.
I thought the application of this law was to prevent the final
touch being a hand, to take away any issue with adjudging
"intent" in scoring a goal.
If the scoring action involves a hand then by all means penalise
otherwise let the refs get on with it
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