DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 13972--------------------------------------------------
Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: Matt
Date: December 21, 2019, 1:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts?
#Post#: 13973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 21, 2019, 2:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Quite an interesting performance I have a number of thoughts -
Big Picture - Game in full control, no major issues in
disciplinary control, good player management.
Looking at the finer points - The biggest issue is the VAR
intervention, firstly no blame whatsoever on the referee for the
initial call, in real time a totally reasonable decision. On
replay though I can see why VAR intervened - I just think they
intervened from the wrong reason. For every angle bar one it
appears as if there is no contact made and this one angle was
not shown to the referee from what I could see. The angle from
the right hand side of the goal showed that the defender did
make a small contact with the attackers foot as he struck the
ball so for me it is a foul. Now returning to the other angles -
they would seem to indicate that the foul took place outside of
the penalty area. So in my view the VAR should have called the
referee for the foul being outside the box, therefore FK and RC
for DOGSO (attempt to play the ball but outside the area). Now
with regard to the referees actions at the screen, from the
angles I think he was shown and the argument he must've been
hearing from VAR I can totally understand why he reversed his
call, from the side on angle it does look as it no contact is
made and this was the angle reviewed most closely. A challenging
situation for all, one I think they got wrong in the end in
terms of blame I would apportion it primarily to the VAR but I
must emphasis a very difficult scenario.
In terms of the referee I would make the following simple
comments - superb man manager, excellent fitness and good
disciplinary interventions but he had a somewhat erratic foul
detection, while all YC were at least supportable there were a
number of times I thought he gave simply wrong free kicks (e.g.
against Robertson in ET). There were 4/5 of these very clear,
albeit rather inconsequential errors that for me marred the
performance somewhat. The biggest clear error was the Mane
caution - yes he deserved a card but the initial foul should
have been in his favor.
On the positives I thought he managed players excellently e.g.
Mane situation mentioned also the Salah caution he calmed him
down very well after a harsh but supportable yellow and had him
go from protesting to accepting with a smile within 30 seconds.
His fitness was also very good he maintained a high work rate
throughout.
Overall I would say a promising referee with a relativity good
performance - my mark? 8.2 (-0.1 for missed yellow, -0.1 for
foul detection issues).I have a feeling though that some will
totally disagree with me and see this differently, as I said at
the start - it was an interesting performance.
#Post#: 13974--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 21, 2019, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> Quite an interesting performance I have a number of thoughts -
>
> Big Picture - Game in full control, no major issues in
disciplinary control, good player management.
>
> Looking at the finer points - The biggest issue is the VAR
intervention, firstly no blame whatsoever on the referee for the
initial call, in real time a totally reasonable decision. On
replay though I can see why VAR intervened - I just think they
intervened from the wrong reason. For every angle bar one it
appears as if there is no contact made and this one angle was
not shown to the referee from what I could see. The angle from
the right hand side of the goal showed that the defender did
make a small contact with the attackers foot as he struck the
ball so for me it is a foul. Now returning to the other angles -
they would seem to indicate that the foul took place outside of
the penalty area. So in my view the VAR should have called the
referee for the foul being outside the box, therefore FK and RC
for DOGSO (attempt to play the ball but outside the area). Now
with regard to the referees actions at the screen, from the
angles I think he was shown and the argument he must've been
hearing from VAR I can totally understand why he reversed his
call, from the side on angle it does look as it no contact is
made and this was the angle reviewed most closely. A challenging
situation for all, one I think they got wrong in the end in
terms of blame I would apportion it primarily to the VAR but I
must emphasis a very difficult scenario.
>
> In terms of the referee I would make the following simple
comments - superb man manager, excellent fitness and good
disciplinary interventions but he had a somewhat erratic foul
detection, while all YC were at least supportable there were a
number of times I thought he gave simply wrong free kicks (e.g.
against Robertson in ET). There were 4/5 of these very clear,
albeit rather inconsequential errors that for me marred the
performance somewhat. The biggest clear error was the Mane
caution - yes he deserved a card but the initial foul should
have been in his favor.
>
> On the positives I thought he managed players excellently e.g.
Mane situation mentioned also the Salah caution he calmed him
down very well after a harsh but supportable yellow and had him
go from protesting to accepting with a smile within 30 seconds.
His fitness was also very good he maintained a high work rate
throughout.
>
> Overall I would say a promising referee with a relativity good
performance - my mark? 8.2 (-0.1 for missed yellow, -0.1 for
foul detection issues).I have a feeling though that some will
totally disagree with me and see this differently, as I said at
the start - it was an interesting performance.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree with most of that. The contact was pretty clear, albeit
not from every angle, and the only thing the VAR check should
have been about was inside or outside the area. It was clearly
outside, so the only correct outcome would have been direct free
kick and red card for DOGSO. How they managed to come to a
rescinding of the yellow card and a dropped ball is just
baffling and can only really be put down to a failing of VAR.
#Post#: 13975--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 21, 2019, 2:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1250.msg13973#msg13973
date=1576960790]
> Quite an interesting performance I have a number of thoughts -
>
> Big Picture - Game in full control, no major issues in
disciplinary control, good player management.
>
> Looking at the finer points - The biggest issue is the VAR
intervention, firstly no blame whatsoever on the referee for the
initial call, in real time a totally reasonable decision. On
replay though I can see why VAR intervened - I just think they
intervened from the wrong reason. For every angle bar one it
appears as if there is no contact made and this one angle was
not shown to the referee from what I could see. The angle from
the right hand side of the goal showed that the defender did
make a small contact with the attackers foot as he struck the
ball so for me it is a foul. Now returning to the other angles -
they would seem to indicate that the foul took place outside of
the penalty area. So in my view the VAR should have called the
referee for the foul being outside the box, therefore FK and RC
for DOGSO (attempt to play the ball but outside the area). Now
with regard to the referees actions at the screen, from the
angles I think he was shown and the argument he must've been
hearing from VAR I can totally understand why he reversed his
call, from the side on angle it does look as it no contact is
made and this was the angle reviewed most closely. A challenging
situation for all, one I think they got wrong in the end in
terms of blame I would apportion it primarily to the VAR but I
must emphasis a very difficult scenario.
>
> In terms of the referee I would make the following simple
comments - superb man manager, excellent fitness and good
disciplinary interventions but he had a somewhat erratic foul
detection, while all YC were at least supportable there were a
number of times I thought he gave simply wrong free kicks (e.g.
against Robertson in ET). There were 4/5 of these very clear,
albeit rather inconsequential errors that for me marred the
performance somewhat. The biggest clear error was the Mane
caution - yes he deserved a card but the initial foul should
have been in his favor.
>
> On the positives I thought he managed players excellently e.g.
Mane situation mentioned also the Salah caution he calmed him
down very well after a harsh but supportable yellow and had him
go from protesting to accepting with a smile within 30 seconds.
His fitness was also very good he maintained a high work rate
throughout.
>
> Overall I would say a promising referee with a relativity good
performance - my mark? 8.2 (-0.1 for missed yellow, -0.1 for
foul detection issues).I have a feeling though that some will
totally disagree with me and see this differently, as I said at
the start - it was an interesting performance.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree with most of that. The contact was pretty clear, albeit
not from every angle, and the only thing the VAR check should
have been about was inside or outside the area. It was clearly
outside, so the only correct outcome would have been direct free
kick and red card for DOGSO. How they managed to come to a
rescinding of the yellow card and a dropped ball is just
baffling and can only really be put down to a failing of VAR.
[/quote]
Am I correct in thinking that inside/outside is considered a
factual call and wouldn't require the referee going the screen?
I'm sure someone better informed can illuminate me!
#Post#: 13978--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: guest3
Date: December 21, 2019, 4:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=1250.msg13974#msg13974
date=1576961300]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1250.msg13973#msg13973
date=1576960790]
> Quite an interesting performance I have a number of thoughts -
>
> Big Picture - Game in full control, no major issues in
disciplinary control, good player management.
>
> Looking at the finer points - The biggest issue is the VAR
intervention, firstly no blame whatsoever on the referee for the
initial call, in real time a totally reasonable decision. On
replay though I can see why VAR intervened - I just think they
intervened from the wrong reason. For every angle bar one it
appears as if there is no contact made and this one angle was
not shown to the referee from what I could see. The angle from
the right hand side of the goal showed that the defender did
make a small contact with the attackers foot as he struck the
ball so for me it is a foul. Now returning to the other angles -
they would seem to indicate that the foul took place outside of
the penalty area. So in my view the VAR should have called the
referee for the foul being outside the box, therefore FK and RC
for DOGSO (attempt to play the ball but outside the area). Now
with regard to the referees actions at the screen, from the
angles I think he was shown and the argument he must've been
hearing from VAR I can totally understand why he reversed his
call, from the side on angle it does look as it no contact is
made and this was the angle reviewed most closely. A challenging
situation for all, one I think they got wrong in the end in
terms of blame I would apportion it primarily to the VAR but I
must emphasis a very difficult scenario.
>
> In terms of the referee I would make the following simple
comments - superb man manager, excellent fitness and good
disciplinary interventions but he had a somewhat erratic foul
detection, while all YC were at least supportable there were a
number of times I thought he gave simply wrong free kicks (e.g.
against Robertson in ET). There were 4/5 of these very clear,
albeit rather inconsequential errors that for me marred the
performance somewhat. The biggest clear error was the Mane
caution - yes he deserved a card but the initial foul should
have been in his favor.
>
> On the positives I thought he managed players excellently e.g.
Mane situation mentioned also the Salah caution he calmed him
down very well after a harsh but supportable yellow and had him
go from protesting to accepting with a smile within 30 seconds.
His fitness was also very good he maintained a high work rate
throughout.
>
> Overall I would say a promising referee with a relativity good
performance - my mark? 8.2 (-0.1 for missed yellow, -0.1 for
foul detection issues).I have a feeling though that some will
totally disagree with me and see this differently, as I said at
the start - it was an interesting performance.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree with most of that. The contact was pretty clear, albeit
not from every angle, and the only thing the VAR check should
have been about was inside or outside the area. It was clearly
outside, so the only correct outcome would have been direct free
kick and red card for DOGSO. How they managed to come to a
rescinding of the yellow card and a dropped ball is just
baffling and can only really be put down to a failing of VAR.
[/quote]
Am I correct in thinking that inside/outside is considered a
factual call and wouldn't require the referee going the screen?
I'm sure someone better informed can illuminate me!
[/quote]
Yes, an OFR wasn't needed. The referee could have gotten the
info (inside/outside) via the communication. But I believe that
Martinez Munuera called him in order to sell the decision
better. Don't forget that Flamengo players were furious and
questioned even the foul.
IMO, the decision should have been a DFK+RC for DOGSO. The
no-call is not acceptable especially at that level.
#Post#: 13979--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: guest42
Date: December 21, 2019, 4:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Was surprised - judging by the ineptness of the VAR - that it
wasn’t Massimiliano Irrati...
#Post#: 13980--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: Matt
Date: December 21, 2019, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You've got to wonder, what's changed at FIFA between last years
world cup and this year.
Take the Henderson "foul". Last year in the world cup that
would've been a penalty. This game it was a foul on the player
fouled.
#Post#: 13981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 21, 2019, 5:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: edy link ---
>
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1250.msg13975#msg13975
date=1576961478]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=1250.msg13974#msg13974
date=1576961300]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=1250.msg13973#msg13973
date=1576960790]
> Quite an interesting performance I have a number of thoughts -
>
> Big Picture - Game in full control, no major issues in
disciplinary control, good player management.
>
> Looking at the finer points - The biggest issue is the VAR
intervention, firstly no blame whatsoever on the referee for the
initial call, in real time a totally reasonable decision. On
replay though I can see why VAR intervened - I just think they
intervened from the wrong reason. For every angle bar one it
appears as if there is no contact made and this one angle was
not shown to the referee from what I could see. The angle from
the right hand side of the goal showed that the defender did
make a small contact with the attackers foot as he struck the
ball so for me it is a foul. Now returning to the other angles -
they would seem to indicate that the foul took place outside of
the penalty area. So in my view the VAR should have called the
referee for the foul being outside the box, therefore FK and RC
for DOGSO (attempt to play the ball but outside the area). Now
with regard to the referees actions at the screen, from the
angles I think he was shown and the argument he must've been
hearing from VAR I can totally understand why he reversed his
call, from the side on angle it does look as it no contact is
made and this was the angle reviewed most closely. A challenging
situation for all, one I think they got wrong in the end in
terms of blame I would apportion it primarily to the VAR but I
must emphasis a very difficult scenario.
>
> In terms of the referee I would make the following simple
comments - superb man manager, excellent fitness and good
disciplinary interventions but he had a somewhat erratic foul
detection, while all YC were at least supportable there were a
number of times I thought he gave simply wrong free kicks (e.g.
against Robertson in ET). There were 4/5 of these very clear,
albeit rather inconsequential errors that for me marred the
performance somewhat. The biggest clear error was the Mane
caution - yes he deserved a card but the initial foul should
have been in his favor.
>
> On the positives I thought he managed players excellently e.g.
Mane situation mentioned also the Salah caution he calmed him
down very well after a harsh but supportable yellow and had him
go from protesting to accepting with a smile within 30 seconds.
His fitness was also very good he maintained a high work rate
throughout.
>
> Overall I would say a promising referee with a relativity good
performance - my mark? 8.2 (-0.1 for missed yellow, -0.1 for
foul detection issues).I have a feeling though that some will
totally disagree with me and see this differently, as I said at
the start - it was an interesting performance.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree with most of that. The contact was pretty clear, albeit
not from every angle, and the only thing the VAR check should
have been about was inside or outside the area. It was clearly
outside, so the only correct outcome would have been direct free
kick and red card for DOGSO. How they managed to come to a
rescinding of the yellow card and a dropped ball is just
baffling and can only really be put down to a failing of VAR.
[/quote]
Am I correct in thinking that inside/outside is considered a
factual call and wouldn't require the referee going the screen?
I'm sure someone better informed can illuminate me!
[/quote]
Yes, an OFR wasn't needed. The referee could have gotten the
info (inside/outside) via the communication. But I believe that
Martinez Munuera called him in order to sell the decision
better. Don't forget that Flamengo players were furious and
questioned even the foul.
IMO, the decision should have been a DFK+RC for DOGSO. The
no-call is not acceptable especially at that level.
[/quote]
Do you think Munuera called him over for foul outside and
Al-Jassim decided (against VAR advice) to give no foul?
Obviously we can't be sure but initial graphic on TV said Free
Kick, of course could be an error by the producers however it
did seem there was quite a discussion going on between VAR and
referee
In any case I agree DOGSO and FK outside
#Post#: 13985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 21, 2019, 5:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think VAR would have recommended no foul at all, otherwise
most likely course would have been VAR just recommended outisde
and red card and referee accepted that.
#Post#: 13986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abdulrahman Al-Jassim LIV v FLA
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: December 22, 2019, 2:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I thought he was thoroughly incompetent and way out of his
depth. The foul on Keita that he missed, the caution for Salah,
numerous free kicks given the wrong way and the ridiculous VAR
farce which was DOGSO just for starters.
Once again in a showpiece game, just as in the Super Cup Final,
an official is appointed way beyond his ability and fails
spectacularly. Thankfully in both games despite incompetence the
result wasn’t affected.
Experienced and capable officials must be fuming that two finals
at these showpiece tournaments have been gifted to referees to
tick diversity boxes. Absolutely laughable.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page